How much more do proof coins worth than their normal versions?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ibuycoinsoffebay, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. maddurfee

    maddurfee Boy Wonder

    I thought, in terms of condition, proofs were less valuable because they are properly stored in collections usually and so they stay in high condition. Business strikes were circulated amd so mint state conditions were much harder to find. Isnt that correct?
     
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Not necessarily so. As I mentioned previously, the answer to which is more valuable depends specifically on which coin you are talking about. When it comes to how coins were stored you have to remember that until the 1970's or so it was considered normal and a very common practice for collectors to harshly clean the coins in their collections on a regular basis, including the Proofs.

    So with many coins there can be several other factors that have a much greater impact on determining whether a Proof or business strike for a given issue is more valuable. Think of mintage for example. If there were only 600-700 Proofs minted, and several million or tens of millions of business strikes minted it is not unusual for there to be far fewer Proofs still in existence than there are business strikes. And then the Proofs will be more valuable. In other cases the opposite is true.

    To a limited degree this is correct, but not always, especially with older coins. With more modern coins, yes it is more common. However, there are a few cases among older coins where very, very, few or even no MS examples are known to exist. So in a case like that yeah the business strike is going to be more valuable.

    This is one of those subjects where there just isn't a generality that is true.
     
  4. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Has anyone heard of Google? :facepalm: The answer is Quantico, Va. :D
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  5. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Your Virginia hint should have given that away to everyone
     
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    No, I'll bet most folks never heard of Quantico until the TV series added a few?
     
  7. SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom

    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom Well-Known Member

  8. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    They should of heard of it before for a variety of reasons.
     
    Insider likes this.
  9. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    The Amtrak trains heading south to Florida pass right through the base. I believe some stop there, but not every one.
     
  10. Lemme Caution

    Lemme Caution Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure that the Mint calling its specially-made non-proof/non-business-strike coins "uncirculated" is such a good idea in the first place since it might just be causing more confusion than is really necessary. After all, and especially so among the non-numismatically-inclined public at large, any coin fresh from the Mint that hasn't yet been in circulation among the public as pocket change is in fact conventionally considered to be an "uncirculated" coin, and that happens to be the case whether it was manufactured as a Mint-designated "uncirculated" or "business strike." Perhaps someone could come up with a much better, ideally far less ambiguous term for these non-proof, non-business-strike coins.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  11. SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom

    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom Well-Known Member

    Real vs. Sucker Bait?
     
  12. Lemme Caution

    Lemme Caution Well-Known Member

    I don't know what means, that is to say, you've lost me here. Please explain.
     
  13. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    The closest is probably the NCLT term.
     
    longshot likes this.
  14. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    I do know one thing - among modern commems, an awful lot of non-proofs are doing better in the secondary market than their corresponding proofs. Some MUCH better. In the issues that the proof is doing better, the gap is smaller.

    Have you seen the aftermarket prices for recent year non-proof clad commem halves? It's nuts. Yes, the OIP's went up, but that drove initial sales demand down and guess what!
     
  15. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Lemme Caution, posted: "I don't know what means, that is to say, you've lost me here. Please explain."

    Usually, The country that makes the coins (in this case the U.S.) gets to decide what to call them. Many countries issue coins with mirror Proof surfaces yet call them Uncirculated or Mint State. Grading services throw the word "Specimen" on a label for any coin they fancy.
    There are possibly more important and interesting things in numismatics to consider because the Mint does not care what collectors like us think! :happy:
     
  16. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Truth on steroids.
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  17. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    With all the milk spotting problems, it does seem that at least a percentage of collectors have moved away from ultra modern proofs. I certainly have until they're several years old
     
  18. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    You mean like wait a few years for those that are going to develop milk spots to do it before you buy? While I'll admit there are some I haven't looked at in years, I have had VERY little problem with milk spotted coins. Even ALL my proof ASE's are "clean".
     
  19. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Pretty much yes. Like 2014 and before for proofs I'll buy now, 2015 next year ect if I wan't one. It's just not just a Canadian problem anymore, Australia/US are getting hit by it too. Haven't seen it on British proofs yet but since Canada and Australia have it I have to imagine it is some of an issue for their non circulating proofs. I like non proofs better but that is one of the reason why I developed that taste.
     
  20. Lemme Caution

    Lemme Caution Well-Known Member

    What's causing this, and why is it spreading across other national mints?
     
  21. Lemme Caution

    Lemme Caution Well-Known Member

    Thank you; that is helpful.
     
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