How much GOLD is enough, to provide security for your family ?

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by mpcusa, Feb 19, 2023.

  1. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    There are other forums where the OP's question might get some traction and discussion. Probably not here. Just saying.
    I don't have strong opinions, I kind of agree that it probably would be a pretty narrow set of circumstances where PM's would be hugely useful.
     
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  3. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Look at it from a different perspective.

    In a bad situation, for what would the farmer trade, when all his produce will spoil if he keeps it, if he has more land than he wants to tend, and all the natural water supply needed to supply his crops?

    Money exists solely to facilitate the exchange of what each us has to offer, compensating for differences in value and availability at any point in time.

    if the farmer wants cordwood, fertilizer, or PV cells, what should he accept as payment for his produce? Yeah, tough question to answer when fiat currency rings so hollow these days, but one doesn’t care to acknowledge the next most widely recognized store of value . . .
     
  4. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    You have to have something to trade, under a moderate set of circumstances
    and taking in to affect things will improve where adequate food, shelter and
    security will return.
     
  5. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer A Caretaker, can't take it with me

    The list of what the farmer would trade for his perishable crops is vast.

    Medical supplies
    Toothpaste/brushes
    Feminine products
    Diapers
    Toilet paper
    Soap
    Gasoline/kerosene/fuel
    Alcohol
    Cigarettes (not for me ;) )
    Batteries
    Communications (HAM, CB)
    Replacement water filtration: sediment & carbon
    Iodine
    Clothing
    Books (instructional/reference and entertaining)
    Pens/pencils
    Paper
    Items for entertainment (no more TV or internet ;) ):
    Musical instruments
    Paint and brushes
    Games

    And plenty more. PM's don't even get mentioned on a list when it's TEOTWAWKI.
     
  6. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    You’ll get no argument from me on most of those things being needed by the farmer, and by most others. However, it is the asynchronous availability and unequal value of goods and services to be transacted which necessitate a widely recognized medium of exchange, both for making change and for storing value until needed for a purchase.

    If fiat currency loses the full faith and credit of the people, what is to backfill that function? Candle wax, Wampum?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2023
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  7. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis Helpful? Click *Best Answer*! Supporter

    Not to mention the nameless Chinese businessmen buying up potential farmland, then leaving it to rot. It's happened in my town a few times.
     
  8. Cinco71

    Cinco71 Well-Known Member

    They're not buying it to grow food on it themselves. They buy it and then rent it back out to farmers. Passive income. Great way to make money if you can pull it off. I doubt end of the world theories enter into the equation at all.
     
    -jeffB likes this.
  9. Eric the Red

    Eric the Red Well-Known Member

    Since gold is a preservation of wealth you can never have enough:)
    Stack on
     
  10. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I don't know. Wealth isn't really like an egg; you don't increase it by sitting on it.

    Wealth ought to do stuff. Some of that stuff can make it grow. Growing is better than being preserved, right?
     
  11. Eric the Red

    Eric the Red Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying put all your eggs in one basket, but I believe physical gold in an excellent investment. Gold has long proven itself over the last 5,000 years of being used as sound money. According to Google the Average annual return of gold and other assets worldwide 1971-2022. Between January 1971 and December 2022, gold had average annual returns of 7.78 percent, which was only slightly behind the return of commodities, with 8.3 percent average annual returns.
     
  12. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I think I'm looking at the same source you are (Statistia), and I can't see whether their figures are nominal or inflation-adjusted dollars...?
     
  13. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    As far as the idea of silver and gold as a barter item when the local currency crashes, appearently this happened in Venezuela in the near past. There are stories of people carrying small bits of PM's wrapped in the old paper money.
     
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  14. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    It's not gold coins but tangible financial assets -- stocks, bonds, and cash -- that give you financial security.

    Gold is simply disaster insurance -- MAYBE. Some people think long-term U.S. Treasury bonds provide that and the last 40+ years, they'd be right. :D

    Your coin/gold collection is simply something you can look at and admire and it's an additional source of money IF you need it. A source of money that could be worth the same, more, or alot less so unlike cash/bonds/stocks you have risk with uncertain future values.

    With C/B/S you know they go up over time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2023
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  15. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Since most of us do NOT have a lifespan of 5,000 years.....gold's return over that time period isn't of much use. :D

    Cherry-picked data like from 1971 -- before gold had an extraordinary, once-in-a-lifetime move up 20-fold -- are similarly useless.

    Using rolling time periods -- which eliminates timing and beginning/end period bias -- gold is a TERRIBLE long-term investment as are most commodities.

    Stocks are your best long-term investment and now with yield bonds aren't bad, either.
     
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  16. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    In the same time period, the S&P 500 returned 12.1% with much lower volatility and risk.

    In other words....$1 invested in gold or other commodities grew to $50 or $63. But the same $1 invested in stocks returned $380.

    I don't believe in investing or buying stuff in preparation for Armageddon, but the way to prepare for it is to buy stocks (or better yet, a diversified portfolio of stocks/bonds/cash) and build wealth that way, preferably selling a few days before Armageddon. :D
     
    -jeffB likes this.
  17. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Don’t have much confidence in paper,
    stocks are very sluggish right now
    for me atleast and my kids and grand
    kids like GOLD for inflation protection :)
     
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  18. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    That's what the world runs on. If you want some gold for disaster insurance, I get that. But you can't possibly think that tying up the bulk of your financial assets and net worth in an asset that pays no interest or dividends is sound financial management.

    It isn't -- it's malpractice, with all due respect.
    Stocks go up and down. I'm not saying to go out and put 100% into stocks (I'm actually bearish ST right now) but you can get 5% in 1-year Treasury bills with no risk....6% in high-quality corporate bond or bond funds....and 7-8% with modest risk.

    We just had a bloodbath in the bond market, why wouldn't people here be looking at that sector ? If gold fell 40% in a year, wouldn't many of you be loading up ?
     
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  19. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    even though I do BTC, I like assets that
    I can physically hold like GOLD fluctuations up or down don’t really
    bother me as I don’t buy to flip, all
    of what I own will be passed down
    so it will just average out on the cycle
     
  20. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I have NO problems buying gold or gold coins as part of our hobby or even as a small % of a non-wealthy person's portfolio.

    Gold, commodities, and PMs can NOT match the returns from stocks or even bonds (when yields are normalized) over the long haul, as I posted above.
     
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  21. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    with the recent pandemic, who knows
    what the new normal is ? things have
    changed so drastically, I am not sure
    what you can count on anymore, it’s
    a sad state of affairs, went to Chili’s
    last night for dinner and the staff shortages are so much there offering
    $30 an hr for someone to wash the dishes ! and that’s a full tome position
    and no takers !
     
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