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Message:: [QUOTE="Vegas Vic, post: 2112630, member: 58810"]Do they? I think this is really just as subjective as grading. To me a coin is a piece of metal (or any substance really. I once saw a error coin stamped on a paper like product) minted at the us mint with a denomination on it. people can feel free to quote whatever standards or definitions they want but my opinion is clearly the same as the market opinion when you look at the valuation of these questioned items. I purchased and posted a fragment I bought pcgs ms64 that has around 14 strikes on it. I think of it as a coin as it is a piece of metal minted at the U.S. mint with a denomination on it. This may not qualify as a coin by some but again market value shows many do. Same as with patterns. I don't think the market price for patterns would be anything near where it is today if many collectors didn't consider them coins.[/QUOTE]