How Many Morgan $ Proofs Were Made?

lol

 

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can you please give us a few examples of coins struck at the us mint that you feel are as valuable as tokens minted privately?

 

Not to speak for Doug, but I believe he is referring to all of the restrike coins and I recorded coins that the mint has made over the years. Take the proof half cents, Gobrecht dollar and the 1913 liberty nickels as examples of manufactured rarities. I have even heard people argue that the 1794 SP-66 is a restrike made somewhere in the 1830s. This argument holds no water though, the coin was clearly made from the same dies as the rest of the 1794 dollars, and is of an early die state.

 

I guess we agree to disagree again. To me, (and the many in the market, and by many I mean almost everyone else) a U.S. coin is a disk of metal with a value stamped on it. Patterns for one.

While I respect you have radically differing opinions then the market as a whole I don't think you speak for that many people who would value a pattern in market value as much as a privately minted item.

 

That is certainly a valid opinion. Maybe the 1913 Liberty nickels and 1804 dollars aren't coins, but they're certainly interesting numismatic items, having been struck with US Mint equipment by Mint employees. Even though they're not "regular issue," they certainly hold value for their provenance alone. (Whether you think that provenance is worth the prices they sell for is another matter). And, as @Vegas Vic says, they're arguably "coins" at least in the same sense that pattern coins are.

What I'm wondering is if any or all of these great rarities are legally coins? IIRC, a coin has to be struck in the year it's dated, but I can't find the reference in law to establish that.

 

"How many proof Morgan Dollars were made" you ask? Well few enough for me to never afford one

 

Do they? I think this is really just as subjective as grading. To me a coin is a piece of metal (or any substance really. I once saw a error coin stamped on a paper like product) minted at the us mint with a denomination on it. people can feel free to quote whatever standards or definitions they want but my opinion is clearly the same as the market opinion when you look at the valuation of these questioned items.

I purchased and posted a fragment I bought pcgs ms64 that has around 14 strikes on it. I think of it as a coin as it is a piece of metal minted at the U.S. mint with a denomination on it. This may not qualify as a coin by some but again market value shows many do. Same as with patterns. I don't think the market price for patterns would be anything near where it is today if many collectors didn't consider them coins.

 

I'd drop the 94-S dime from that list. They were struck as business strikes (even though I believe the TPG's now call them proofs) in 1894, and they are accounted for in the mint records for that year. (Although I will have to admit it doesn't appear they were released through normal channels.)

 

Not unless you include the one supposedly spent on icecream. That one became a business strike by almost all definitions regardless what the mints intentions were with them. Isn't one supposedly in the cornerstone of the San franscisco mint building.

 

Actually I believe it's your problem. Everyone else seems pretty happy. You seem to be in a one man minority on many issues. Have you ever considered the possibility that change occurs? I know it can be scary but it will happen whether or not you personally agree. For example, in today's world the Ana system of grading is obsolete. The current standard for grading us coins are the pcgs/ngc ones. People statistically buy very few high end coins raw. The market is clear and unmistakable. Look at any auction catalog you will most likely find 90% or more of the coins pcgs or ngc graded. You can bang your fist on the table all you want but being able to grade raw coins on the pcgs/ngc scale as @Lehigh96 once said is more economically important and valuable then grading raw coins on the Ana scale.

 

Very true, and I think most people have no idea how to grade and are mainly buying plastic and numbers.

 

Excluding the Zerbe "proofs", but including the Chapman proofs. There are 30 different Philadelphia mint proofs (78 8TF, 7TF, 7TF Rev. 79, 79-04, 21). Then there are four branch mint proofs -- 79-O, 83-O, 93-CC, 21-S.