How many Ancient Greek Cities can we get?

We all have to face questions as to when a difference is enough to make a difference to us. I have posted a coin rather like these two in the recent past. First was when I bought it at a coin show and second was when it made my 'By price' favorites of the year. It was my representative for $21 to $30.

Do we consider my coin the same as the ones posted by Plumbata or PeteB? Their coins had different magistrates written vertically at reverse left while mine shows ΔIO written horizontally. Because of the horizontal magistrate, the striking crew centered the reverse to the right on my coin which also allowed the long city name to be on flan at top and bottom but make Nike seem oddly distant to the right. The obverse letters are also different. I imagine someone at the mint telling the engraver to cut the next die with Nike's arm poking through the city name and to rotate the magistrate name so the things could be 'normally' centered. Certainly the coins are different to a specialist in coins of this city but they are the same to many of us. Plumbata recognized PeteB's coin as the same as his but did not see the match with mine. We will all have opinions on what is the same and what is different on our coins.

Stop cleaning now!

 

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I did not see your coin before Doug, but honestly don't know if it would have "triggered" the instant visual association that Pete's coin did for me. Victory's arm interrupting the legend was a significant feature. I was also convinced that mine read EΛAIOYIΣIΩ(N) which may be why I had no success figuring out what it was. And yes, I'd stopped cleaning it months ago and won't mess with it more, at least until I get some proper diamond tipped tools and a binocular microscope. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

I nominate this one for earliest known hobo nickel.

 

We got at the moment 4 cities starting with the letter G and 5 cities starting with the letter H. If you have any coins from ancient Greek cities starting with these 2 letters, then please share them!

 

Not a good picture, but still a coin from Gryneion (not yet on the list):


Gryneion, Aiolis, 3rd c. BC, AE 11. Obv: Laureate head of Apollo, facing 3/4 left. Rev: Mussel shell, ethnic ΓYP-N. 11mm, 1.2g. Ref: BMC 3–5, SNG Copenhagen 205–6; SNG von Aulock 1619.

 

BITHYNIA, Herakleia Pontika
Rare. AE18. 3.35g, 18mm. BITHYNIA Herakleia Pontika, circa 250 - 200 BC (?). Stancomb, Autonomous 7a, dies A2/– (unlisted rev. die); SNG BM Black Sea 1631; HGC 7, 489. O: Head of Herakles right, wearing lion skin. R: HRAKLEWTAN, Lion right; monogram above, facing boukranion between forelegs, club below.
Ex Ronald J. Hansen Collection


TROAS, Hamaxitos
AE11. 1.39g, 11mm. TROAS, Hamaxitos, circa 350-310 BC. SNG Cop 344. O: Laureate head of Apollo left. R: ΑΜΑ−ΞΙ on either side of lyre.

 

Not sure whether this will serve to encourage or discourage this discussion, but I can tell you that there are over 600 cities and issuing authorities known in the Classical world as the sources of Roman Provincial coinage, most of which is at least arguably Greek, if later in the pageant of Hellenism.
Presumably, given how fragmented "Greek" society was with a different city- or nation-state founded in every cove, harbor, estuary or landing in the Mediterannean - there were far more than the 600+ cities that struck local types with Imperial portraits and Greek legends in the Roman era which may have been issuers of earlier, more purely Greek coin types before the ascendance of Rome. If you were seriously going to try to cite them all, this could be a very long thread.

 

I think it is manageable, only 1-2 letters every 2-3 days and after finishing the alphabet whenever you desire. Besides that maybe in 10 years we will reach 600 cities, I predict we will most probably reach 200 cities when the alphabet is finished. Plus, the thread doesn't have to be finished before 2019, I think it is nice having a thread going for a long time.

 

Another G and H.


THESSALY, Gyrton
AE Dichalkon. 3.72g, 18.5mm. THESSALY, Gyrton, early-mid 4th century BC. Cf. Rogers 228; BCD Thessaly II 78 var. (ethnic); HGC 4, 370. O: Bare head of the hero Gyrton right; to right, head and neck of bridled horse right. R: ΓΥΡΤOΝΙΩΝ, head of the nymph Gyrtone left.
Ex BCD Collection


THESSALY, Halos
AE Chalkous. 1.9g, 13.9mm. THESSALY, Halos, 3rd century BC. BCD Thessaly 86.2; HGC 4, 8. O: Diademed head of Zeus right. R: ΑΛΕΩ, Phrixos riding ram right; monogram to left.
Ex BCD Collection

 

GELA, SICILY
AR Litra
OBV: Naked horseman galloping left holding spear & shield
REV: Forepart of man-headed bull right
Struck at Gela, Sicily, 425BC
0.36g; 13mm
SNG Cop 275, BMC 52, Jenkins 405; HGC 2 374

EUBOIA, HISTIAIA
AR Tetrobol
OBVERSE: Wreathed head of Histiaia right
REVERSE: ΙΣΤ−ΑΙΕΩΝ (partially retrograde), Nymph seated on galley right; SI below
Struck at Histiaea, 369-146 BC
2.23g, 15mm
BCD 379

 

Good point, but I thought one purpose of the thread was to show only what is in the CT member's collection. With the coin in hand, details could be exchanged between members. An example might be the Amyntas coin I showed, which prompted our stalwart Doug Smith to point out to me a detail my old eyes missed: the mark ε below the club on the obverse.

 

The Provincial version is here:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/roman-provincial-coin-cities-how-many-can-we-cover.300235/

I think the intent of this thread it to post coins from "Greek" cities which were not under any type of Roman control at the time of the coin's issue.

 

While I agree there will always be a problem with the definition of 'Greek'. I consider it obvious that the word as it applies to ancient coins should include many places not inside the borders of the modern country called Greece. Some/most will include any coins with legends in Greek. I have heard a definition as any land invited to participate in the Olympics. The question of when to end 'Greek' and begin 'Provincial' is made difficult by the semi/quasi-autonomous coins including some that don't seem to have changed a lot when Rome took over that particular region. Do you know when Rhodes stopped being 'free'? Same question can be asked for any other city.

Then we have the matter of smaller regions which had their own king who certainly was to a degree dependent on Rome for his authority: When do the coins of the Bosporous kingdom start being Roman? Who can even name the authorities about whom we could ask that question? How do we handle the Parthian coins that include tetradrachms from the Greek influence, kings who were 'installed' by Rome and periods they were the flat out enemies of Rome?

When I was first starting to collect, I was told that the definition of Greek coins was the part left after you dealt with the Romans. I hope we all know it is not all that simple.

 

Good interpretations Doug.

I think the best is to say, the end of 'Greek' and begin of 'provincial' is when the Greek city became part of a Roman province, however as you say it is quite difficult especially with semi-autonomous coins.

A good example is Corcyra, in 229 B.C. Corcyra surrendered to the Romans. However, under Roman protection it was allowed to retain its autonomy (including the mintage of bronze and silver coins), it was a Roman protectorate (the reason of the independence). In 148 B.C. it was however attached to the Roman province of Macedonia. But the weird thing is, it was allowed to mint both silver drachms and bronze coins until 48 B.C. After 48 B.C. it was only allowed to mint semi-autonomous bronze coins.

Now, where do we put the end?

In 229 B.C.? I would say no because it was still a protectorate.
In 148 B.C.? Well, I would say yes and no, because it became part of a Roman province, however, it was still allowed to make autonomous drachms and bronze coins.
In 48 B.C.? Well yes and no. It is the end of their autonomous coinage and they continued minting semi-autonomous bronze coins.

It's very difficult to say, what is the end of 'Greek' coinage in Corcyra? 148 B.C. or 48 B.C.? It was already part of a Roman province in 148 B.C. but it didn't stop minting autonomous coins until 48 B.C.

 

We got 5 cities starting with the letter G and 7 cities starting with the letter H. If you still have coins with these letters, please post them.

Let's continue with the next letters, post your coins from Ancient Greek cities starting with the letters I, J and K. The reason I do 3 letters is because I am pretty sure nobody has a coin from a city starting with the letter J. It would be great if someone has one though.

I have one coin with K:

Kentoripai, Sicily

Sicily, Kentoripai Æ Hemilitron (Ca. 344-336 B.C.)
Obverse: Laureate head of Apollo right.
Reverse: KENTO-ΡIΠINΩN; lyre, three pellets to left and right.

 

A problem here is do we count Kolophon, Kyme, Kyzikos etc. or were those all covered in the C section?

 

Sorry, I got confused.

 

Klazomenai

Various denominations of Pigasi


Kisthene


MYSIA, Kisthene
Orontes, satrap of Mysia, c. 357-352 BCE
AR Half Siglos or Tetrobol; 13 mm, 2.75 gm
Obv: Nude hoplite crouching left behind shield, spear at ready
Rev: Forepart of winged boar right
Ref: Troxell, Orontes 4; SNG France 1164A (Lampsakos); SNG von Aulock
Very rare.
ex X6 Collection

Lakedaimon


LACONIA, Lakedaimon (Sparta)
80-50 BCE
AR triobol, 2.29 gm
Obv: Head of Herakles right
Rev: Amphora; to each side, caps of the Dioscuri; all within laurel wreath
Ref: BCD Peloponnesos 868

 

Kamarina


Kamarina. AE tetras, 420-405 BCE


Kamarina. AE tetras, 420-405 BCE

 

We are doing L?

Lampascus