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<p>[QUOTE="ksparrow, post: 653063, member: 7638"]Thanks for the kind words, guys (and nomination!) I'm trying to share some of the knowledge I've acquired the last several years, in the spirit of Cointalk.</p><p><br /></p><p>With regard to edge reeding, this is another area where forgers often come up short. It just isn't a side of the coin that people pay much attention to, it usually isn't a feature of auction photos, and most slabs hide it (except the much-maligned NGC Edgeview). Below is a photo of the edges of 3 trade dollars together. A fake on each side, and a genuine one in the center. On the left hand fake, as you can see, the 'lands' are extremely variable, some almost paper thin, leading to a lot of variation in the 'grooves.' On the right hand fake, they look fairly regular, but don't quite seem to reach all the way to the rims. Look hard at the lower right corner, and you will see some granularity and pitting which is much more obvious in hand. It has to be the result of either casting, or a poorly made transfer die.</p><p>Some trade dollar fakes have an applied rim- they struck the coin 'disc' first and then placed the heated reeded ring on and plated the whole thing. One would expect all sorts of rim issues with those (brings to mind that chopmarked coin on the other thread <a href="http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t63412/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t63412/">http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t63412/</a>)</p><p><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/fakes%20and%20forensics/edgereedingTDcomparison.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>You will note that I haven't mentioned weight. Of course, you should always weigh a raw Trade dollar, but the better fakes have the correct weight. It is often helpful to ask the seller what the weight is, in grams. If they immediately pop back with, "27.22 grams," the 'official' weight, that makes me a little queasy, since most of the genuine ones are off just a tad. If it's an honest person who has a coin they know nothing about, you may get an answer like "23.4 grams" which should lead to an exchange of useful information! Those who don't reply at all, or who reply with a smart remark, are best avoided. </p><p><br /></p><p>OK, so which of these do you think are fakes, and which are real? It's ok to give a 'probabilistic' reply, such as " I'm 90% sure it's a fake," because you can NEVER be certain from a photo (unless it has the wrong reverse for the date!). Some of these may be cleaned, chopped, or have damage, not relevant to authenticity. Try shrinking the images down to typical eBay auction photo size for a real challenge!</p><p><br /></p><p>Exhibit A: 1876-cc wt. not available</p><p><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/Trade%20Dollars/1876-ccTradeDollarDDRobverse.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/Trade%20Dollars/1876-ccTradeDollarDDRobv.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Exhibit B: 1877-cc wt: 27.10 g, damage to rim and dentils.</p><p><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/fakes%20and%20forensics/fake1877cctdobvraw.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/fakes%20and%20forensics/fake1877cctdrevraw.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Exhibit C: 1875-cc, wt. not available,</p><p><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/Trade%20Dollars/1875cctradedollarobv.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/Trade%20Dollars/1875cctradedollart-2rev.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Exhibit D: 1874-cc, wt. 27.21g</p><p><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/fakes%20and%20forensics/fake1874-ccTDobv.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/fakes%20and%20forensics/fake1874-ccTDrev.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="ksparrow, post: 653063, member: 7638"]Thanks for the kind words, guys (and nomination!) I'm trying to share some of the knowledge I've acquired the last several years, in the spirit of Cointalk. With regard to edge reeding, this is another area where forgers often come up short. It just isn't a side of the coin that people pay much attention to, it usually isn't a feature of auction photos, and most slabs hide it (except the much-maligned NGC Edgeview). Below is a photo of the edges of 3 trade dollars together. A fake on each side, and a genuine one in the center. On the left hand fake, as you can see, the 'lands' are extremely variable, some almost paper thin, leading to a lot of variation in the 'grooves.' On the right hand fake, they look fairly regular, but don't quite seem to reach all the way to the rims. Look hard at the lower right corner, and you will see some granularity and pitting which is much more obvious in hand. It has to be the result of either casting, or a poorly made transfer die. Some trade dollar fakes have an applied rim- they struck the coin 'disc' first and then placed the heated reeded ring on and plated the whole thing. One would expect all sorts of rim issues with those (brings to mind that chopmarked coin on the other thread [url]http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t63412/[/url]) [IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/fakes%20and%20forensics/edgereedingTDcomparison.jpg[/IMG] You will note that I haven't mentioned weight. Of course, you should always weigh a raw Trade dollar, but the better fakes have the correct weight. It is often helpful to ask the seller what the weight is, in grams. If they immediately pop back with, "27.22 grams," the 'official' weight, that makes me a little queasy, since most of the genuine ones are off just a tad. If it's an honest person who has a coin they know nothing about, you may get an answer like "23.4 grams" which should lead to an exchange of useful information! Those who don't reply at all, or who reply with a smart remark, are best avoided. OK, so which of these do you think are fakes, and which are real? It's ok to give a 'probabilistic' reply, such as " I'm 90% sure it's a fake," because you can NEVER be certain from a photo (unless it has the wrong reverse for the date!). Some of these may be cleaned, chopped, or have damage, not relevant to authenticity. Try shrinking the images down to typical eBay auction photo size for a real challenge! Exhibit A: 1876-cc wt. not available [IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/Trade%20Dollars/1876-ccTradeDollarDDRobverse.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/Trade%20Dollars/1876-ccTradeDollarDDRobv.jpg[/IMG] Exhibit B: 1877-cc wt: 27.10 g, damage to rim and dentils. [IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/fakes%20and%20forensics/fake1877cctdobvraw.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/fakes%20and%20forensics/fake1877cctdrevraw.jpg[/IMG] Exhibit C: 1875-cc, wt. not available, [IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/Trade%20Dollars/1875cctradedollarobv.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/Trade%20Dollars/1875cctradedollart-2rev.jpg[/IMG] Exhibit D: 1874-cc, wt. 27.21g [IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/fakes%20and%20forensics/fake1874-ccTDobv.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/cks2007/fakes%20and%20forensics/fake1874-ccTDrev.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
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