how do you spot fake Trade Dollars, anyway?

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Hi everyone, very informative and great discussion!
Wondering if you can shed some light on the coin attached?
Thanks in advance

 

I was glad to see this thread. Many years ago, I received in a Christmas swap (among many other things), an 1876 trade dollar with the word "copy" on the 2x2. It's good to see this and understand WHY it's not a real coin. Even though I've collected coins on and off for 30 years, I'm still a "beginner" coin collector. To my untrained eye, I certainly wouldn't know it was a counterfeit if it weren't written on the 2x2, but some of the things the original posts says to watch out for is present in this coin (3 fingers on the 1876, the berry under the claw on the reverse, and differences in the dentils, where they look more like dots on the southeast corner of the obverse). If anyone is curious to see this fake coin, I'll see if I can get some good photos of it to show.

 

Always more to learn. I'd love to see it!

 

Sparrow - I am wring a new book on contemporary counterfeits. I find your level of expertise very illuminating. If you could write say a five page overview I will include it in my new book for this coinage. It would work well in my Chinese Fakes chapter.

John Lorenzo
Numismatist
United States

P.S. Sparrow - just a suggestion. Buy my new book with Gurney on Counterfeit 8 Reales. We do include information on the Trade Dollar and also some of you techniques like proper dentils, etc. is discussed in the book. See Amazon Books. Eight Reales. Click the Look Inside Link for a taste of this book. COntact me privately if you want your TD stuff in my next book.

 

Thanks for a wealth of good information. I should have read this a while ago. I bought a slabbed trade dollar from a reputable auction house and it appears to be fake. They are standing behind their reputation for which I am thankful but how now do I buy a real one. I have not heard from the grading company as of yet.

 

I'd love to see it .

 

Definer and penny for thoughts, unfortunately, both your trade dollars seem to be counterfeit. The best place to examine the coin, after confirming the weight and thickness of course, is the denticles. The length of the denticles vary slightly between dates, but in all cases, will have roughly the same relief as the rim and will always be uniform in size and length on each side of the coin (although the reverse may have slightly longer denticles, it is of equal size on the entire reverse). Denticles that break off, are too thin, not uniform in size on one side, or not of the right height will almost certainly prove that the trade dollar is fake.

 

Best way if you can't tell a fake in hand is to buy a slabbed coin from a reputable seller . There's just so many good fakes out there . I have one that Tom Delorey couldn't say for sure if it was fake , but he leaned toward it being a fake . I really don't know anyone more knowledgeable about fake Trade Dollars as him , and if he couldn't say for certain without further testing , you know it was a great fake .

 

Well I'm 7months late but the 78cc posted above has to be fake due to the type 1 reverse. Course there is a ton wrong with it otherwise: terrible edge reeding, mushy details, dentils, blatant AT.
Hey Rusty have you posted pix of your (possibly) fake TD?

 

Hey Doc , not yet . My camera bugged out . But after all that I'm leaning to it's real . Doc , from the toning do you think the coin above is silver ? I'd of thought if they were using silver they'd use their best dies and those , like you said , are not very good at all .

 

I don't know if it's silver or not; I expect one could AT almost any alloy. There is a thread on the CU forum about the newer 78-cc fakes started by Stealer that is worth reading .

 

I'll have to check it out , Thanks for the heads up Doc .

 

Here's the link to the 1878-cc fake thread: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=899612&highlight_key=y

 

Thanks !

 

I know they have new designations for the obverses and reverses like IIL , IIM . I know they have to do with the reverse tail feather for the reverses but haven't found a good example to tell the different obverse Types . IIRC it has something to do with the wheat stalks or bales . Any help appreciated Doc !

 

Other than the traditional obv. types, and the transitionals, I don't know of any others. Still waiting for the definitive TD ref book to be published.

 

One on the reverse is the right side of the tail is even and rounded all the way down , with another sub type having a break in the tail . I'm sure you have both kinds in your connection . I can't wait for the new book too as so little was written on them .

 

These are the sellers photos and I know they are not great pictures but do you think this coin is real?