how do you spot fake Trade Dollars, anyway?

Can you please post a larger photo?

 

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Hopefully I haven't lost too much resolution... I can also try the separate files...

 

Perhaps you should try the separate file. Unfortunately the photo, at least on my end, is still quite small.

 

Since I'm working with a photo I didn't take this may not be any better. Thanks for the help (or attempt) in any case!

 

It looks like a type II obverse but I can't see the reverse well enough to tell which type it is . Too bad you don't have a better pic . But if this is on ebay and Books B4Coins can't ID it I'd pass . Just because of the terrible pic the seller put up and parts of the reverse look mushy and cast like though this can be from the pic not the coin .

 

Photos aren't the best, but the puffy rounded look of the letters and generally poor detail on the reverse make me suspicious. I would not under any circumstances place a bid based on those images.

 

It's about 3x more than I was willing to pay with another three days left on the auction so I'm definitely NOT going to get it.

 

While I think you may be expecting a tad too much of a deal on a genuine example no matter the condition, with this example and all things considered, walking away is a smart move as there simply is not enough information present/visible to say one way or the other.

 

You bring up an interesting point. For a common date, authentic Trade Dollar, what would be a fair price range? I'd really like to pick one up.

 

I think if you wanted one for type, an S mint from 1874-1878 in XF say.. if you found a nice uncleaned one for about 200- 240 that would be a good price but you might have to wait a while. But a lot of them have problems, usually cleaning, and it's easy to overpay for a problem coin.

 

So I recently bought this raw 1875-s off eBay as it is a somewhat scarce die pairing that you don't see very often. Seller seemed established and coin looked ok in seller's photos which were not as large as I like; so what the heck....

Coin arrived and eyeballing it, it seemed ok. some odd streaky toning, but it seemed ok.



then I got out the loupe for a closer exam:
see those little round things around the motto? they're like tiny metal beads. some porosity in the devices and dentils too. The red stuff... I have no idea.


on the rev, small rounded pits in the devices. not looking good.


on the upper rev, more round beads around the devices.


Then I got around to weighing it: a full gram under. (why I posted the question about the wt of an empty 2x2).

It's a cast fake, with bubbles in the casting medium accounting for the tiny metal beads. Probably made a long time ago, as the coin has a nice looking patina. Since it could fool a lot of people by looks alone, I didn't fault the seller (but did point out to them that weighing a raw trade dollar is sort of basic due diligence). Returned for refund.
The edge reeding didn't look too hot either from what I could see.

 

Oh, here is a link to a thread I posted on the PCGS forum about a simple technique to photograph the edge reeding on raw coins. Forgers rarely pay any attention to the "third side" of the coin and this makes it easy to evaluate the reeds. For serious variety nerds it also makes reed counting simple.
http://forums.collectors.com/messag...18655&highlight_key=y&keyword1=authentication

 

Doc I could see how the pics could have fooled you . Looks like a Type I/II micro S . Too bad it's fake .

 

Yeah Rusty, it was a bummer. Ticks me off that the forgers just randomly came up with a scarce variety when making their fakes.

When I contacted the seller they asked me not to use the ebay "return" or "SNAD" routes so their ratings would not be hurt. They seemed like nice people so that's what I did. I asked them to add the shipping/ins costs to the refund but so far they haven't.

 

Heck the least they could do is include shipping , hopefully they will .

 

Well they originally offered 2$ but I felt I needed to insure it for the amount I paid, which added up to about 11$. They seemed amenable to this but that hasn't panned out. My penalty for a risky decision, I guess, and tells me something about the seller's priorities.

 

@ksparrow - I like it. But then again I like it for the wrong reasons...

Assuming that I was after a real one, however, if I were in your shoes, experience tells me that if anyone asks you to go outside the official channels (return, SNAD, claims, etc.) after they've been caught hawking a fake knows precisely what they're doing. Usually when someone sells a fake, eBay will refund the purchase and the buyer doesn't need to return the item (which stings the counterfeiters).

If this doesn't work out, if you'd allow it, I'd like to put this coin up on The Black Cabinet with the seller's information attached to its profile.

 

Hi Steve, I'll give them a couple of more days to see if they refund the shipping. If not then I'll PM you, OK? Hopefully this will not be another instance of "Let no good deed go unpunished."

 

I messaged the seller and they kindly refunded $11 to my paypal acct so all is well. I still think they made an honest mistake and hope they have learned something. I've offered to help them authenticate trade dollars if they like.

 

Glad to hear you got it straightened out Doc .