how do you spot fake Trade Dollars, anyway?

I’m not liking this one Jack. Details look subtly off. Denticles look really weak and the centers look weaker than the rest of the coin. Usually the s mint coins are really well struck with the exception of the 73-s. This looks crisp around the reverse lettering like a nearly ms coin yet the eagle and the portrait look vf. And the surfaces look contrived. How is the weight and metal?

 

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Your previous post did look like clashed dies. But there was so much damage and harsh cleaning it was hard to make a call but I thought it had a chance

 

Is that a die chip or pmd on the denticles below de on the reverse. If a die chip could be a diagnostic tool.

 

Also seeing something odd with the n in United. Again looks like die related

 

I notice this one has no period after FINE. Anybody know if that is a known variation? Over 5 million minted so maybe?
If there is some undamaged edge reeding, a closeup of that would help.
The weakly struck areas on the rev. don't look that unusual to me. A tough one due to the rough handling this coin has had.

 

answered my own question.

 

I’m not seeing some of the other marks though that look die related like the letter n and that missing denticle. Could be a high end struck counterfeit Jack is known to find from a damaged host coin. Or a die variety from really worn dies

 

I have asked the owner for more info and will post it here when he responds. Thanks all!

 

I think it's likely pmd. a chip in the die would be filled in, creating a larger raised defect, wouldn't it? On the other hand, damage to the hub is possible, but should be seen on my "dotless" example I posted above, which seems to be very uncommon. So that's why I think it's pmd.
Assuming the wt, diameter, andmetal content are correct, Isuspect we are looking at a very beat up but genuine example. (this may change depending on additional info Jack may provide)

 

here is another 74-S, no dot, that shows rev. weakness similar to the subject coin(this one is AU58, so also allow for wear to the coin in question.)

 

CORRECTION: It is too late for me to edit 5 posts back, "answered my own question" The mintage for 1874-S dollars is about 2.5million, not over 5 million, which is the 76-S. the reverse of the coin pictured in that post is a 76-S, not 74-S, I entered the wrong date in the Heritage database. (but it does appear that the "no dot after FINE" variation IS pretty hard to find on the 76-S, for those who care about such things). Both kinds are seen with some frequency for the 74-S. Sorry for my mistake.

 

A friend and coin dealer was going through his safe and found these at the bottom...






All 4 were purchased in Vietnam as counterfeits; all 4 test 90% silver but all are at least 2 or more grams too light.

Just to be sure they were sent to long time Numismatist Jeff C. Garret and confirmed fake- I have them for review as well.

Best, Jack

 

These are pretty good counterfeits except the 78-cc. The granular surface a easy tell Thanks for posting

 

I hit a speedbump on the 1878-P, which looks nothing like a proof to me, wear or no wear.

 

Thank you, very informative.

 

Look at the lettering on "In God We Trust" on all four. Poor job.

 

Matters not how much silver is in a coin, it's still a fake, very interesting though. Thanks for posting them.

 

the 77cc and 78cc both have the wrong rev (T1) so are arm's length fakes. mushy granular surfaces too. as pointed out the 1878 was proof only and that obviously ain't a proof.
the 76s is the scary one for me as that is a legit die pair (type 1/2 micro s) and I don't see anything that screams fake about it.
If the weight's off by 2g that clinches it but that one is worthy of close study.

 

I’m not an expert on the correct die diagnostics, but the surfaces really jumped out at me, especially the 2nd, 3rd and 4th examples.

 

speaking about the 76-s again, on the obv there seems to be some sort of problem near the ribbon tips, and the overall surfaces look odd. Again, hard to say anything definitive from where I sit.