How do you guys feel about EPQ/PPQ?

Discussion in 'Paper Money' started by Endeavor, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    I've always stayed away from purchasing graded notes without EPQ/PPQ designation. The problem is I pass up on a lot of notes that seem nice and well priced, especially older series.

    What are your thoughts?
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  3. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Paper quality is very important, so if you note doesnt have that designation
    Watch out for a host of problems !
  4. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your reply.

    I feel like the grading system for notes is flawed. If a note has a grade of 50 PPQ and another note has a grade of just 50 (without EPQ/PPQ) then I think the scale should be adjusted to take paper quality into account in the number grade. So when you are shopping for notes you don't have to wonder if a 45 EPQ is better than a 50 or 55. In that case you are judging on two scales instead of one that encompasses everything.

    It gets really absurd when you see a note graded 65 or 66 without EPQ/PPQ. Those two number values are considered "GEM". How can a note be considered GEM when it's paper quality is not good enough to get the EPQ/PPQ designation??? Meanwhile you see 20 and 25 grades with EPQ/PPQ! LOL, it's absurd!

    Last point I want to make is that paper quality probably shouldn't also be a yes or no identification. It shouldn't be yes it is EPQ/PPQ or no it isn't. There is probably a wide range of quality to paper. At the very least there are 3 different grades within paper quality: 1. Easy to tell EPQ/PPQ 2. Easy to tell not EPQ/PPQ 3. not easy to tell whether EPQ/PPQ or not.
  5. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Here,s an example of a non PPQ graded note even though the note is in XF-45
    Which is a decent grade you can see the paper is not so bright and has kind
    Of a dingy tint, since most of what i collect 68PPQ or higher i tend not to
    Run in to this problem to often.

  6. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

  7. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    Would you agree then that the note in your example should be graded lower numerically and the EPQ/PPQ designation eliminated from grading altogether? In other words have the note that grades 45 PPQ become 45 and the note that is 45 dropped to say 35 or 40.

    I'm not necessarily advocating for the removal of the paper quality designation. I just think it has to be amended somehow. I think my earlier example of how you have some notes graded 66 (without EPQ/PPQ) but then have some notes grade 20 with EPQ/PPQ is so absurd.

    I'm sorry but any note that grades GEM should also have EPQ/PPQ. It is absurd to me that some well circulated notes (15-30) have EPQ/PPQ but not all GEM grades (65+).

    Since pointing out a flaw without proposing a possible solution is not as constructive, I suggest having a second numerical scale to grade the paper. I don't know how many distinguishable levels of paper quality there might be so I leave that up to someone with more experience.
  8. lettow

    lettow Senior Member

    *PQ means that the paper is original in that it has not been pressed, flattened or cleaned. It is not describing the overall condition of the paper. That is the technical or numerical grade.

    Comparing a 20PPQ with a 65 is comparing apples and oranges. The PQ was invented to distinguish between notes of the same technical grade but one has been messed with and the other not.

    The TPGs grade as presented. If a 45PPQ is pressed to remove folds making it UNC, the same TPG will grade it 64 no PQ.

    What you are describing is net grading and while there is merit to that approach, it is not the approach used by the TPG companies.
  9. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Here,s one from my collection from the early days when i didnt know any better..LOL, even though it does have the PPQ designation and the paper
    Is in good shape the margins are horrible !! and to your point they should
    Go hand in hand so this one has allot of explaining to do.


  10. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Here,s one, this note is on the rare side, and that,s why i bought it
    Have had it for a long time, would i buy it again ? in this case yes
    But i do think the the PPQ designation to be on the marginal side
    Especially on the reverse.


  11. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    To add to this PMG does grade up to 64, with out the EPQ designation
    Just a foot note.
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