How do we know it is fake/real?

Great photos. Florescent light is better for authentication and allows all of us to see the surface better. If you have one and can keep the magnification the same it would be very instructive to help point out what I regard as the flaws on the piece. In my opinion the owl is a counterfeit. I'll bet the edges are worn smooth and rounded. For now, that is just a very strong opinion from a nobody. So, let's wait to hear from the more knowledgeable members and not the "EX-Perts."

 

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What does this mean?

 

In the photo the area which is scratched seems to be very bright, where surrounding areas are still dark. That would give you the difference.

As for the Athens tet, I would have to see it in person. The overall appearance is just fine, but there are some areas of the surface which may be wrong (there sometimes is a fine line between pitting and casting bubbles). Also, some strange blue areas, may indicate too much copper in the mix. Bottom line, it needs to be seen in person.

 

Read Post #53. It should be simple to understand. The word "expert" has two roots!

BTW, this is the kind of "great" information I look forward to reading from members MUCH MORE knowledgeable than myself.

I cannot wait to learn how to detect ancient file marks from modern ones.

 

Clear as mud!

 

Forget the mud. Looks like your suggestions helped get the good photos posted.

What do you think about the owl? Do you know a way to differentiate old and modern file marks when the modern ones are not shiny and fresh?

 

@TheMont , are you shure its 89% silver , looking at your pics, I would say its a fourree (copper coin with a silver mantle) it has all the signs: green stuff , sharp cracks in the edge , heavily underweight 14.2 gram should be around 17 gram.
and the red stuff looks like paint ?
if its a fourree thats not a bad thing, there are collectors for those coins , I'm one of them

 

So are those sharp 90 degree edges normal for that type you started the thread with? I'm not familiar with the type but the coins I attempted to look up suggested edges that were rounded but you never get pictures of the edged directly so I can't be sure.

 

Definitely 89% silver. A local jewelry store has one of those very expensive machines that you put a coin or piece of jewelry in analysis what metals are present and in what percentage. They did the Athena twice and both times Silver-89%. We put in a coin that was in a bezel and it indicated the bezel was 14K while the coin was 18k, that's how sensitive the machine is.

 

IMHO, microscopically they are very different. The Owl is covered with perfectly round holes. We might assume one or two may be considered as "pits' by some (not me). That's because 99% of the time pits due to corrosion are not perfectly shaped holes.

 

Here are some good examples of ancient file marks:

 

Exactly! This is why these need to be examined in person. I have seen enough coins over the years as a dealer to know that pits can and do look like bubbles.

 

You guys have me nervous now. As I mentioned, I bought the Athena from a fellow coin club member and he assured me it was authentic. He said if I sent it out to NGC Ancients and they said it was a fake he would give back the $400 I paid for it, but from previous posts I've been told that even if NGC says it's authentic, they don't guarantee their decision.

I'm between a rock and a hard space. I'd give it back to him, but my wife really likes the coin. By the way, she's the ancient collector in the family and I think it would break her heart if it was counterfeit.

I'm tempted to let the matter drop and let her continue to enjoy the coin.

 

It would be a shame if it were not authentic. NGC will not guarantee authenticity, but David Sear will. Good luck whether you have it authenticated or not.

 

I'm not familiar with David Sear.

 

Apart from other suspicions already raised, I'd stress the point on the weight being 14.2g, which is severely underweight for a coin that ought to be much closer to 17g.

You'll see in this link 268 examples sold by a major auction house, the vast majority being between the expected 16.8g - 17.2g for an Athenian tetradrachm of this period. In fact, the three coins in that list you'll find that are under 16g are examples of fourree tetradrachms (ie., plated silver ancient counterfeits with base metal cores). The weight of your coin is a huge red flag and strongly suggests the coin is cast or otherwise unauthentic.

 

David Sear is an authority on Ancient coins. He resides in California, and you can get his address on line (I do not have it at hand). He has an authentication service which cost about $50 per coin.

 

If I put 14.2 grams I made an error. I just took out the scale and it weighs 17.1 grams. I am POSITIVE it is 89% silver, again the metal analyzer confirmed that twice and the jewelry store uses it on a regular basis and has it recalibrated on a regular basis. The edge is slightly rounded with no sign of an edge or file marks as found with a cast coin.

 

dude, i don't know how to tell the difference, that's why i asked. i didn't state that i know age of something because of the patina, it's pretty clear i was making a guess. to call that "BS" takes some serious cattiness...like some bravo network level stuff.



real housewives of cointalk?



like you, i know that using a few emoticons means it's perfectly ok to just be as snarky as i please.

your statement was that it does't matter if the marks are new or old, and my statement was that it does to me...and it does to you as well probably.

if some mark was put on a coin in the mint as it appears to be with the syrian tets it's part of the coin making process to me, and it isn't damage. the same marks put on the coin yesterday for whatever reason are damage. how do they know they were put on in the mint...i don't know. read dougsmits page about the edge markings the coins, if you have questions...ask him.


when i first showed up at a coin forum and asked questions and made guess, no one ever said BS, made condescending remarks, or made a cute little emoticon troll parade. some friendly guys helped me out and i've been hooked ever since... i followed those guys to this forum from.

if i would have ran into you on my first coin posts, i probably would have left.

well, now... i'm not going to leave. but i'm not going to catfight with you either. go find someone else to be "tiffany" so you can play "erika"...or whatever their names are.





god i hate bravo.