How do I talk to a slab person about ancient coin grading?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by rrdenarius, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Compared to what the 1980s? :rolleyes:
     
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  3. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I have no idea what you are trying to get at.

    Just a couple random points:

    A 1796 Dollar PCGS VF-25 sold for $1265 in 1993 ($2213.75 in 2019).

    A 1796 Dollar PCGS VF-25 $4560 in 2018. Twice as expensive.

    A 1796 Quarter PCGS MS-63 sold for $26400 in 1993 ($46200 in 2019)

    A 1796 Quarter PCGS MS-63 sold for $152750 in 2014. Over 3 times as expensive. This is assuming that the 1993 coin was not cracked out and upgraded (an NGC MS-64+ sold for $264000 in 2017).

    So yes, high-end coins were much more affordable 20-25 years ago.
     
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  4. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    So those were all the same coin being compared to itself?

    High end coin prices bounce around a lot and the best get sold privately a lot as not that many people can afford them. The best of the best did nicely, that doesn't mean they all did
     
  5. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    Currently there is no data that support this idea. No high-end auction house (NAC, CNG, etc.) purposely slabs its ancient coin offerings in any price range, except Heritage, and there is no evidence that this will change in the future.

    A novice collector of ancients who is serious about this hobby will quickly learn that slabbed coins offer no advantage, and in fact offer a price disadvantage, over unslabbed ancient coins. I suspect that those novices who are only dabbling in the ancient coin market will be the buyers of slabbed ancients but won't buy many before they move on to some other interest.
     
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  6. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Well, in the Heritage archives, there was another PCGS MS-63 1796 quarter that sold for $40000 more over 3 years. Same coin.

    I really don’t understand your point. So are you trying to say that there is really no net upward trend in price for higher-end slabbed US coins (exceptions being top-pop moderns and commons)? For someone who is such a PCGS fanboy, would you not like to promote the fact that higher-end slabbed US coins have appreciated more in the past 25 years than most other coin types? Or is it because that because such a statement occurred in an anti-slab thread and you have to counter anything said that was remotely anti-slabs, factual or not?

    My intent was that slabbing would not be the end of the ancient coin market as we know it, just as it did not for US coins. The only areas that saw major changes in the US coin market were in the high end of the value spectrum (>$5000), and that generally does not affect most collectors. If slabs took over ancient coins as well (and they most likely won’t), I’d predict the same thing would happen, and it would not be the end times scenario some think would happen.

    Is this not the rational view that you want collectors to have? If so, then why are you attacking it?
     
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Slabbed or not, I would be interested in statistics on how often a specific coin has sold over a period of years (10, 20, 50?) or how long it has been since that specific coin was last sold. I have three coins that I have owned over 50 years and several hundred that I have owned over 30. I wonder how many people out there define their hobby as owning the coins as opposed to buying and selling?
     
    panzerman likes this.
  8. KSorbo

    KSorbo Well-Known Member

    My interests in the numismatic hobby are very broad. My biggest focus is on US type coins and paper money, but I like to dabble on the dark side on occasion. My latest purchase is a Tiberius "Tribute Penny" from an eBay auction, and it's in an NGC slab. So yes, you could say that I am a novice and that I probably won't buy many more ancients before moving to other interests. However, dabbling in different areas is what I enjoy the most because whenever I venture into something new I end up learning something.

    Even if the price is higher, I still prefer slabbed ancients, along with virtually all of my other coins and notes which are also slabbed. That gives my collection both liquidity and continuity. I understand that having COA's from reputable dealers also offers a lot of security, but I'm not deep enough into ancients to gain a good working knowledge of which dealers/auction houses to go to, so I just stick with eBay and Heritage. Even if I pay more, I can turn around sell a slabbed ancient on eBay for the same inflated price, and I don't need to convince another novice of the coin's provenance.

    I'm confident that I am speaking for a lot of collectors in saying this, because otherwise Heritage wouldn't be doing such a strong business.
     
    baseball21 likes this.
  9. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    I am in the buying and owning group. I have most of the Roman coins I have purchased. The one exception are Widow's Mites that I like to give to friends and family.
     
  10. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    I am one of those collectors tha twill keep a coin forever. All of my collection, now 850+ AV coins are keepers. I have 30 percent slabbed, rest European style raw graded. I truly beleive its better to obtain a CNG raw graded coin in EF, then to get into a slabbed MS 5/5 5/5, which will go way too high. Most CNG "EF" are better quality, eye appeal then slabbed MS examples. Even for "moderns", I noted a Kunker graded gutes vorz. (EF+) was superior to a MS-63. Actually Kunker had a TPG MS-66 Napoleon 1806-A AV 20 Francs listed as fast st. (AU) in their auction. I do have some coins where previous auction tags/prices where included. One was from recent Newman Auction, coin in question was originally bought by Mr. Newman for $5 in 65. In 2015, it sold for 900US. Again in 65 it was a "EF" on paper pouch, in 2015 it went to MS-65!
     
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  11. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Interesting discussion. I have never had any interest whatsoever in owning a slabbed coin, but I always told myself if one came up cheap...

    And so here it is, in today's mail, my very first slab after 30 years or so of collecting - via eBay, for $13.88 (free shipping!), a Gordian III antoninianus FORTVNA REDVX RIC 144 in an ICG slab (I checked their website and they don't do ancients anymore, apparently). It was graded F12, which seems about right to me. Not sure why anybody would slab such a common coin in such iffy condition.

    I may liberate it some day, but for now I am going to keep it entombed and feel sorry for it.

    Gordian III slab Mar 2019 (1).JPG

    Gordian III slab Mar 2019 (2).JPG
     
  12. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    Keep it there. You do not need to hold that one to see fine details.
     
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