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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Insider, post: 2895328, member: 24314&quot;]<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)">I&#039;ve been in several authentication seminars and personally know a few authenticators.&nbsp; If you ever get the chance to go to the ANA Summer Seminar you can catch a few with their &quot;guard down&quot; at the Moonlight Lounge. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)">The OP&#039;s question is a good one.&nbsp; In fact, that is the purpose of taking a week long authentication seminar.</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)">First, let&#039;s take this:&nbsp; </span></p><p><br /></p><p>Jaelus, posted:&nbsp; &quot;<b><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0)">If the counterfeit is perfect it can&#039;t be detected. It would, by definition, be indistinguishable from a genuine coin.&quot;</span></b></p><p><b><span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0)"><br /></span></b></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)"><b>100% True.&nbsp; </b>That <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie26" alt=":bookworm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> answers the OP&#039;s question and ends any further&nbsp; discussion. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie7" alt=":p" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie85" alt=":smuggrin:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />&nbsp; My emoji and not his.</span> </span></p><p><br /></p><p>Jaelus also posted: &quot;Having said that, there have been [<span style="color: #0000b3">very many</span>]cases where a TPG will decline to offer an opinion on a coin, if they cannot determine if it is genuine or not.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)">Furthermore, there are many cases where knowledgeable, professional authenticators disagree with each other on the authenticity of a particular coin.&nbsp; Additionally, there are many cases where counterfeits are so good that they are excepted as genuine until finally detected.&nbsp; The &quot;Micro O&quot; Morgan dollar fakes is the best example of this as they fooled modern authenticators for several decades even though when they first appeared around the turn of the 20th Century they were determined to be fake.&nbsp; Sometime in the years between they became accepted as genuine!</span></p><p><br /></p><p>SuperDave, posted: &quot;Experience.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)"><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie11" alt=":rolleyes:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> This is the usual &quot;canned answer&quot; <b>given with good intentions</b>; however, while correct, it really tells us nothing. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie3" alt=":(" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> </span></p><p><br /></p><p>ToughCOINS, posted: &quot;I&#039;m in absolute agreement, however I suspect the OP refers to counterfeits which are good enough to get past him / her, yet not so good as to escape detection by professionals at the TPGs.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)">I believe this is the &quot;nut&quot; of the discussion and &quot;perfection&quot; is not the point.&nbsp; AFAIK, so far the perfect counterfeit does not exist.&nbsp; If one is out there, it just has not been seen by the &quot;right&quot; authenticators.</span></p><p><br /></p><p>ToughCOINS continued: &quot;Beyond that, if the counterfeit is good enough to fool some of the professional graders, those able to detect it are likely to hold close their means of detection, sharing it only with those who can be trusted not to publish the information for the culprits to learn from.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)">Mostly true, however realities in the market have forced TPGS to publish some of the characteristics of many state-of-the-art &quot;super fakes.&quot;&nbsp; There is no way to keep the quality of counterfeits from improving.&nbsp; Over the years, the examples of fakes used in the classes I&#039;ve been in have improved.&nbsp; IMO, that will continue because anyone with the right equipment, money, access to genuine coins, a good eye, etc. can produce a &quot;perfect&quot; counterfeit that will defy detection for a period of time.&nbsp; </span></p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)"><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie80" alt=":shame:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie45" alt=":eggface:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />&nbsp; If I would have read ToughCOINS post further I would have saved myself some time! He posted: </span></p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;As the counterfeiters continue to perfect their craft, it becomes increasingly difficult for any but the most practiced of graders to catch their works, making whatever information that could be published of greater value to the offenders than the victims.&nbsp; I&#039;m sure it&#039;s becoming a tough balancing act . . . determining when the bad guys can make more use of the information than the good guys.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>[USER=90300]@ibuycoinsoffebay[/USER]&nbsp; &nbsp; <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)">I hope all of us answered your question.</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)">PS Often the metal used for the fake depends on the quality of the fake and the purpose it was made for.</span>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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