How did this even grade?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by TypeCoin971793, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    The pastel colors and oil-spill texture scream AT to me.

    6FC810EC-12C2-4351-8472-C79036FA3FA4.jpeg 9B931A30-CC9E-400D-ACEE-32801F623A8D.jpeg DC0117D0-18FA-434B-8DB5-B9CCB74A6632.jpeg
     
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  3. H8_modern

    H8_modern Attracted to small round-ish art

    Usually I see those called improperly cleaned
     
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  4. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    It graded because, although it is *highly* unusual, it also looks perfectly natural to me.

    The color progression from light to dark looks absolutely correct (which it often doesn't on an AT coin).

    The "elevation chromatics" also look correct - the tones are different on different parts of the coin, based on how the air would have flowed across the coin. For great examples of this, look at how the color is different in the field between the eagle's tail and the rock, or in the low spot at the bridge of Liberty's nose.

    These aren't 100% foolproof methods of determining NT, but they are hard to fake.

    Given the AU grade, I strongly suspect that this coin was picked up by a collector shortly after it was made and then stored for much of its life. I don't think it was an album, based on the appearance of the toning, but it may have been some sort of envelope.

    I also see zero evidence of improper cleaning, @H8_modern. I agree that residue left from cleaning may lead to unusual toning, but I don't see any evidence of hairlines or polish in these images.

    While this coin is extremely unusual in the vibrancy and completeness of color, it also looks quite natural and incredibly attractive to me. I'd buy it, but a coin like this will sell for an insane premium.
     
  5. H8_modern

    H8_modern Attracted to small round-ish art

    I meant that it looks like a coin that was dipped and not completely rinsed. Then the TPGs call it improperly cleaned. No hairlines. But you certainly might be right.
     
  6. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Not that hard to fake if you get the chemistry right. But the colors on this coin do not go from “light to dark”. They are all bright pastel colors.

    This is where I disagree. The colors have absolutely no pattern to them. Other than that, it is really hard to describe how the coloring feels wrong. Every NT coin should have some sort of pattern to it as the silver reacts to the environment in a natural way.

    That can be explained by the lighting drowning out the colors.

    Here’s a coin I AT’ed. Note how it also has elevation chromatics.

    1B5371DF-C221-4376-BB89-32B168C1C8A8.jpeg 6CD6B3E6-8C55-4A71-9CC7-725C37E0A69E.jpeg
     
  7. Dillan

    Dillan The sky is the limit !

    Here is a picture of a coin I have had since it was a nice bright silver. I never looked at the bottom side of this coin , except when I had received it after purchase. At that time there was no indication of color change, and this I believe is caused from the velvet type of material that lines the clamshell box type holder. Seeing were on the subject of toning natural or faked , what category would this coin fall into . It was probably something that was in the material that initiated the toning? Apologize for the crappy photos. I agree with @TypeCoin971973 that the colors look artificial , but this is only a guess because I do not usually buy ,sell or do anything with toned coins. Dillan
     

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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  8. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Perhaps I chose my words wrong. What I meant is that the colors all follow "ROYGBIV". That is sometimes not true with AT coins.

    Feeling is based on experience. In my experience, this coin looks ok. It is really hard to argue this point.

    The huge difference here is that your coin has an unnatural shade of blue, coupled with a characteristic AT blue-purple-orange-yellow progression. Each of these shades is unnatural compared to what you should see. You didn't need to tell me that you had AT'd that coin, I would have instantly guessed it. The colors are just wrong.

    Compare those to the shades on the Peace. I've seen those shades on naturally toned Peace dollars before. Peace dollars don't tone the same way as Morgans - I would expect a bag toned Morgan to have more vibrant colors (not like the AT'd piece you showed, but different than the Peace). Peace dollars more often have pastel colors like the piece you posted - if I were to see a Peace with vibrant colors like a Morgan, I would tend to suspect that it was AT. If I see Morgan with pastel colors, I tend to suspect AT. Different series will have a different appearance.
     
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  9. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    By themselves the pastel colors don't bother me -- if they were on one side.
    But being on both sides I would be looking elsewhere for that date.
     
  10. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I don't see anything about the Peace dollar that makes me think AT. Nice coin.
     
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  11. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat Well-Known Member

    It's certainly not something you see everyday on a Peace Dollar. I think most people are so used to seeing these with splotchy, somewhat ugly toning that we immediately discount a pleasing example as intentionally manufactured. Interesting...
     
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  12. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    That one is real. The packaging often lead to vibrant toning. Notice yours has a pattern of out to in.
     
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  13. coinsareus10

    coinsareus10 Well-Known Member

    Nice looking coin and MA.
     
  14. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I see nothing that gives me any indication that this coin is AT. The toning is beautiful and natural. I've seen other Peace Dollars that are naturally toned with the same colors, just in a different pattern. Given the AU-58 grade I would surmise that this coin has been stored in a paper envelope for most of its life, thus giving it its current look. That's why it straight graded.
     
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  15. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Toning does not follow ROYGBIV.

    Toning.png
     
  16. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I agree that those do not look like the true colors one would see on a Peace dollar. But I guess they thought they were grading nickels.:happy:
     
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  17. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    If I had it graded, it would come back "Details...questionable color"
     
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  18. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    I have a few Peace dollars from my grandfathers collection that are a bit darker overall but look nearly identical otherwise. They were stored in Manila envelopes since at least the early fifties as far as I can tell. It’s an unusual pattern of toning, but I see this one as natural and a lovely piece.

    Edit: I sent three of them to PCGS in the mid nineties and all three were body bagged at the time, NGC later gave one of them a star, one straight grade, and one details. Complete gamble sending in toned Peace dollars to any service.
     
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  19. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    @mumu collects these toned peace dollars. Wonder what he has to say about it.
     
  20. SilverDollar2017

    SilverDollar2017 Morgan dollars

  21. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    A member here once bought a rainbow toned flying eagle cent from me in PCGS AU58 that was also a green CAC... After cracking it out and putting it in his type set for a while, he decided to send it back in. He tried twice and got questionable color both times.

    As far as the Peace Dollar in the OP. It looks artificial to me.
     
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