How Could This Coin Get An MS66?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by coinblogger, Jan 19, 2009.

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  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The toning is quite normal Ruben, not unsual at all. Not sure what you mean by waving pattern on the obv or rev.
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 21, 2009
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  3. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    I ment the reverse and trhe waving goes from the eagles breast down to the legs. As the toning, this is not normal, IMO for silver. Orange as a dominant color isn't normal, even with exposure to sulfur. Maybe our resident metalologist can weigh in with what caused this.

    Ruben
     
    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
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  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That is a fingerprint.

    Yes that color toning is quite normal. Especially for coins from this time period. Coins from the '30s and '40s often have this color. Comemms from the '30s are very well known for it. It was caused by storing the coins in the small manila coin envelopes that were used by just about everybody in that time frame.
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 21, 2009
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  5. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member


    I'm ignorant, but that is a half dollar and that would be the biggest thumb print I'd ever seen with a pattern unlike any finger I'd ever seen. It looks like a wave to me.

    But as I said, the part I thought was a finger print would in my mind make a 66 grade immediately impossible. It is a break in the luster and according to the ANA guild, Eye appeal is a grading factor.

    A 66 should be darn close to perfection.

    Ruben
     
    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
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  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Even the ANA standards permit fingerprints up to and including 64. TPG standards permit them in higher grades as well.

    Get a half dollar and put your thumb on it. It will cover more of the coin than you think.
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 21, 2009
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  7. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    Actually, I'm looking at it and don't see any discussion of finger prints but I'd agree with you that one can interpret it that way.

    A 66 - that stretches, IMO, the credibility of the grading company - especially an obstructive fingerprint like that. Frankly, I would consider prints wear and drop the whole coin to XF grading. Also, I still say explain the non-humanoid pattern to the print. It might be four fingers?

    Ruben
     
    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
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  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That is your opinion and that's fine. But the standards say otherwise.


    Ruben a half dollar is 30mm in diameter. Now when I put my thumb on a 30mm circle, my thumb covers 85-90% of that circle. And I don't have big fingers. It's a fingerprint - just one. On the reverse anyway. There is another on the obv.
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 21, 2009
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  9. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    Look at the pattern though, does that look like your thumb print pattern?

    Ruben
     
    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
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  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It looks similar to mine yes. They are all unique Ruben - no 2 are alike.
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 21, 2009
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  11. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    But they are all human patterns. I'd like to see yours if it has a wave pattern :)

    Ruben
     
    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Well, there are those who have said I'm not :D
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 21, 2009
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  13. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    Seriously, it looks possibly like a palm.

    Ruben
     
    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
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  14. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
    #33 + Quote Reply
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Call it whatever you like Ruben - it's a print from a human hand. How's that.
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 21, 2009
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  16. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    ah - avoiding the evidence :)
     
    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
    #35 + Quote Reply
  17. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fingerprint Information [/FONT]​

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Types Of Fingerprints[/FONT]​

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Accidental[/FONT]​
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Central Pocket Loop[/FONT]
    ​
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Double Loop [/FONT]​
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Loop[/FONT]​
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Plain Arch [/FONT]​
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Plain Whorl [/FONT]​
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tented Arch [/FONT]​
    [​IMG]​
    [​IMG]​
    [​IMG]​
    [​IMG]​
    [​IMG]​
    [​IMG]​
    [​IMG]​


    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fingerprinting History [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fingerprinting History courtesy of: - www.aladdinusa.com[/FONT]
    ​
     
    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
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  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Not avoiding anything and you are not using evidence. You are using broadbased generalized categories to try and support your theory. Problem is, not every fingerprint falls into those categories and many are only similar. For example, my right thumb fits one of those categories while my left does not. It doesn't even come close.

    But you believe what you want. Further conversation on the subject will not get us anywhere.
     
    GDJMSP, Jan 21, 2009
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  19. jazzcoins

    jazzcoins New Member

    Well i'm going to stick my three cents in I think the toning is giving that effect ,there is spacing between the brown areas which appear to you as a fingerprint


    The mind can play tricks with you , the more i put my mind to it i will start believe it's a fingerprint I do believe it;s the toning pattern and not a fingerprint at all, I seen many toned coins with that type of effect and never thought it was a finger print.

    I believe there is to much spacing between the areas for this to be a real finger print unless it's sasquatches print I also dont see enough evidence on the obverse of the coin either just my opinion


    By the way Gd your not too far from your goal twenty thousand posts coming close to the critical point.

    Jazzcoins Joe
     
    jazzcoins, Jan 21, 2009
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  20. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    well, I guessed today at 2PM - so I lose...


    Ruben
     
    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
    #39 + Quote Reply
  21. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member


    BTW - I Need your contest VOTES.

    Thanks :)
     
    mrbrklyn, Jan 21, 2009
    #40 + Quote Reply
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