How Could This Coin Get An MS66?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by coinblogger, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. coinblogger

    coinblogger Senior Member

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  3. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    For one it's a good strike , I really don't like the toning but toning doesn't affect the grade , clean fields = MS-66 .
    rzage:smile:hatch::hammer:
     
  4. ryanbrooks

    ryanbrooks US Coin Collector

    Just becuase it has ugly toning, it does not bring down the details of the grade ;)
     
  5. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Well I am not familiar with walking liberty halves, but that obverse looks great to me. I can not see enough of the reverse to comment on the grading. I know some others like that type toning, but to me I would have to pass.
     
  6. bqcoins

    bqcoins Olympic Figure Skating Scoring System Expert

    I like toning, but I also like it to be devoid of things like fingerprints which I definately see on that reverse. I think it is just overgraded by PCGS, it happens from time to time.
     
  7. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    I have no problem with that coin getting an MS66 grade from what I see on those photos. We must understand that finding attractively toned Walkers is next to impossible. Believe it or not, the toning on that coin is actually attractive by Walker standards.
     
  8. hfd12316

    hfd12316 Senior Member

    I was thinking more the design of a cloth bag that a fingerprint on the reverse. Still not crazy about toning. Nice coin though.
     
  9. bhp3rd

    bhp3rd Die varieties, Gems

    For the grade it's right

    No problem here coin deserves the grade.
    Ben
     
  10. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    I agree, it looks like a fingerprint.
     
  11. kanga

    kanga 60 Year Collector

    Very well struck coin.
    The left hand is about as good as you'll ever see on a business strike.

    And I don't think that's a fingerprint.
    I think it's a toned that way from being next to the cloth of a Mint bag.
     
  12. johnny54321

    johnny54321 aspiring numismatist

    I personally like the toning; but I'd rather have it on both sides instead of just the reverse.
     
  13. jazzcoins

    jazzcoins New Member

    Well i also have no problem with the grade the coin is well struck the obverse seems to be in great shape and the reverse is a uniquely toned coin ,this coin is an end roll coin i have a kennedy half with one side toned.

    I feel the coin deserves it's mark MS 66 indeed/

    Jazzcoins joe
     
  14. coinblogger

    coinblogger Senior Member

    Thanks for the explanation guys.
     
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    This coin is a good example of something I have said recently - that toning can and will flake off the coin. Just look closely at what appears to be the untoned portions of the reverse. You can still see patches of color there while the majority of it has flaked away.

    And those are definitely fingerprints - not bag/textile toning. Bag/textile toning does not occur on both sides of the coin - finegrprints often do however. (look by the right hand and behind the left arm) Nor is it end roll toning. End roll toning will typically have areas untoned or of a different color that are delineated by straight lines caused by the paper folds. This coin has toning that typical of envelope toning.

    edit - This is also a somewhat unique case of a fingerprint actually helping a coin to grade higher than it should. Look at the lower central portion of the left wing - those are significant bag marks. But they are hidden in the fingerprint pattern making them hard to see. Were it not for the fingerprint, this coin would never get a 66.
     

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  16. kanga

    kanga 60 Year Collector

    I'm still not convinced, but I'm beginning to lean your way.
    What I see by the right hand is metal flow.
    But behind the left arm there is a hint of what could be a fingerprint.

    For me now it's down to a coin-in-hand inspection.
     
  17. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    100% true -- although I'm not coinvinced that's what happened on this particular coin.

    FWIW, that coin looks every bit of a 66 to me, and I'll give the graders at PCGS the edge of any of us when it comes to grading -- they see the actual coin in-hand and we only have (crappy) pictures.

    Respectfully...Mike
     
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Fair enough - gimme another possibility then.


    Again fair enough. But find me a 66 with marks like these. Those are not part of the fingerprint.
     

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  19. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member


    Beyond me. Looks like the toning obscured the damage.

    Ruben
     
  20. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    That is a nolo contendo argument that has no value. It can be used in any discussion of grading and closes the discussion without submitting any real evidence.

    try a diferent tactic. I can see what PCGS did. Its on the label.

    Now here are some facts, while the coin looks very clear around the rims, what the heck is that waving action on the obverse???? And what is with this toning? Does that look like a silver tone?

    Really, I'd question if the slab was counterfit. Does the numbers check out?


    Ruben
     
  21. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member


    How can any coin with a finger print grade a 66. It's a break in the lust and finish of the coin. Also, is that what that waving pattern across the reverse of the coin? It is chips off the face?

    Ruben
     
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