How come this coin sold for so much?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Harry G, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    A little bit like that "Banksy" art work that sort of self shredded itself during its sale at an auctioneers. The banana is the same -it will self destruct naturally and give o0ff an awful pong, meanwhile the gaffer tape will loses its takiness and peel off and fall to the floor. I'm sure its a great artistic metaphor for something, probably a pompous fool with too much money will soon be parted.
     
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  3. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Lots of cash floating out there right now, especially for folks who have done well in the stock market.

    I really think this run-up in hammer prices is due to speculation, same as with real estate, art and other tangible assets. I don't think the causes are the same as they were in 1979-1980, when there was really high inflation, a big jump in oil prices, and the Hunt Brothers stunt to corner the silver market, but there seems to be a bubble waiting to pop.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  4. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

  5. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I think, in many cases, the motivation is to put lots of cash in purchasing a coin, with the assumption that the price will serve almost like a feedback loop, creating an environment of ever-increasing expectations that something like a common LRB will continue to rise, defying the laws of supply and demand, or economic gravity if you will.

    I do think, additionally, that some of the bidding and stratospheric hammer prices has more nefarious intentions behind them, as discussed in other posts in this thread.
     
  6. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    Crazy prices in this auction for sure. But as a few others have noted, there was the occasional bargain too. I think this lovely portrait of Plotina went low (to me! :cigar:) for only 95 CHF:

    01190q00.jpg
    LYDIA. Thyateira. Plotina, Augusta, 105-123. 1/3 Assarion (Bronze, 16 mm, 2.13 g, 6 h). ΠΛΩΤЄΙΝΑ ϹЄΒΑϹΤΗ Draped bust of Plotina to right. Rev. ΘΥΑ/ΤЄΙΡΗ/ΝΩΝ within laurel wreath. RPC III 1829. SNG München 628.

    The nearest comparable example on acsearch sold for the equivalent of nearly 300 USD in 2019.

    Another provincial I picked up for what I thought was a very reasonable price (100 CHF):
    01255q00.jpg
    PHRYGIA. Hierapolis. Triassarion (Bronze, 26 mm, 11.49 g, 7 h), circa 2nd century. ΖЄVϹ ΤϷΩΙΟϹ Diademed head of Zeus Troios to right. Rev.ΙЄϷΑΠΟΛЄΙΤΩΝ Apollo standing front, head to right, holding lyre in his left hand and plektron in his right. BMC 39-40. RPC IV.2 online 2046.
     
  7. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    There are always deals too, as you have proved:) Over the past ten years, most of the 500+ coins I won, where what I would call/ bargains. Even on a couple of pricey ones, I had no regrets. Best thing for me, when coin in hand even looks better then the auction photos. I find, more times then ever, obscure little known auctions have those hidden gems.
    John
     
  8. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    I too was a bit fortunate on the gold as there were about 30 gold lots in a row and my coin appeared near the end of the run so not to crazy in price...
     
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  9. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    Those are two very nice pick ups! Love the triassarion.
     
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  10. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    Many of the bidders know the USA has agreed to an MOU with Turkey.
    https://coinsweekly.com/will-the-usa-implement-a-new-mou-with-turkey/

    If the soon-to-be published MOU includes coins there will be risks associated with buying ancient coins, from the region of modern Turkey, without previous sales records.

    Collectors trying to complete a scarce series may have bid more, concerned they will not have another chance. Dealers may have bid more, because these coins all have a pre-Turkish-MOU provenance, and can be sold to Americans in the future.
     
  11. Silverlock

    Silverlock Well-Known Member

    I saw this kind of thing years ago when I sold a different type of collectible on eBay. Sometimes auctions were runaways. Bidders competing like it was the last one. I had one auction reach $475 for an item worth $30, despite my messaging each of the bidders and telling them they could easily buy it for that amount elsewhere!

    If I caught a runaway in time I’d kill the auction and relist it. Give people a chance to cool down and gain some perspective. None of the relists were ever runaways. If I caught the runaway after the auction ended, I’d sell to the highest bidder at a reasonable price.

    Can’t explain runaways, but I’ve sure experienced them.
     
  12. Sulla80

    Sulla80 one coin at a time Supporter

    Here is an inferior example, more detailed engraving, less wear, flan a gram less, more complete legends, edges of the flan a bit rougher and Providentia's feet are off flan. I am sure that explains why this was < 1/10th the price including bidder's fees, shipping, taxes, and the coffee I enjoyed while shopping. On the other hand there is only one coin struck exactly like this with exactly this set of dies on exactly this flan, so it could be priceless.
    Victorinus Providentia.jpg
     
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  13. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Supporter! Supporter

    Looks like one I sold off some years ago. Good luck on your dreams beyond all avarice:) Xvictorinus15.jpg
     
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  14. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Supporter! Supporter

    I collect those Victorinus. I'm targeting to complete the whole collection one day. But here's the problem since the covid pandemic : before 2020, I was fighting only with other collectors around the world. Never with dealers. Why? Let's say a certain coin has a retail value of 100$. Let's suppose this coin is offered in an auction. Maybe I'm willing to battle up to 150$. Maybe another guy wants it more than me in his collection, so I can lose it; but the dealers weren't there because they have to make a profit on the coin when they resale it. So they will give up at 60 or maybe 75$, right? That was the situation in another world. That time is over, finito, c'est terminé ! Example: this coin was offered in auction lately.

    56A83CE4-DF33-4611-9CBB-7448EAE04657.jpeg

    Very nice, not so common but worthing around 200$. Maybe 300$ on a crazy crazy day. That's where I stopped. Now guess what was the hammer price? 450€ ! Ok, ok, surely another wealthy collector need it more than I do, right ? That is what I thought. Until I see it for sale 2 days later on Vcoins for 720€....it's 1078.20 CAD...for a nice Victorinus... So now the war is against the dealers too...Anyway thanks for reading my post, I feel better now, the pressure is going lower...
     
  15. iameatingjam

    iameatingjam Well-Known Member

    Before the other week all my purchases had been on ebay (reputable sellers only), vcoins and ma-shops. Somebody then suggested biddr as a place where I could get coins for less money. The first auction I checked out was heritage auction and WOW. That was not cheaper. I couldn't believe how HIGH the auctions were going. People were bidding on coins double what you could purchase them for... like at any time. Like there are 12 listed elsewhere for half the price?? so I was a little turned off.

    Anyway, then I checked out zeus numismatics and prices were much more reasonable got two tetradrachm for a bit lower than average price! So I think there are still deals out there. Maybe rich people who have less a concern on the amount they are spending are more likely to go to one auction house over another.

    The other thing I think about is money laundering. I'm not gonna go on tin-foil hat and say this is definitely that or anything... but it would be a good way to launder. Get two people working together to keep bidding against one another, until value is 10x, pay the difference with your questionable money... now its an auction house payments :)

    The value of a coin could vary A LOT in ordinary circumstances so might not raise as many eyebrows as with real-estate or something else. Again, just conjecture.. but I wouldn't be surprised.
     
  16. Sulla80

    Sulla80 one coin at a time Supporter

    Hey! Terence Cheesman provenance - that's fun. (and what better proof that there is only one coin with this strike on this flan with these dies :))
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
  17. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths

    720E? For that,(I'm not a fan of AE radiates at all),you could get a solid silver NewStyle for that still! And that would be BC not AD too. Is there anything special about the Victorinus?
     
  18. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    For me it's simply not something to be understood.
    Just for fun I watched 2 separate auctions yesterday. I really cannot predict the accurate prices, good coins and lots remain on low prices (saw a decent lot of 60 coins, 'starter pack' sold for 210 EUR but I decided to pass it) , but what puzzles me is some coins that are sold with 3-4-5x times the normal price. Or what I consider normal.
     
  19. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    I have been complaining about the overwhelming participation of dealers in auctions over the past 2-3 years and in response I received some rather disapproving comments saying it's their right to do so, they always participated, they are not a threat, you should rethink your bids and the way you evaluate the market and so on. Now that that issue has reached even the lower end of the market, I see other people reacting. Maybe some people had in mind I was complaining because I could not outbid the Frank Robinson type of dealers. Just check the shops of Schmidt and Wadell, to name the most prominent ones. They buy at auctions at already very high prices (even several times the estimate). And then they try to resell at even more extraordinary prices. The majority of coins in their inventory come from auctions and not from private sales. Does anyone wonder why? If one tries to sell directly to them, they will offer a very low price and the seller will of course try an auction. So they prefer to buy more expensively from auctions than offer a fair price at a direct sale. They believe their name guarantees a later resale, whatever extraordinary price they will ask. This is of course a vicious circle and will break only if people stop buying at these prices and they get stuck with an inventory full of unwanted coins.
     
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  20. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    In this highly digital age it should no longer be as hard for coin owners to sell their coins directly online without needing to go to a dealer. If a collector properly catalogues his/her receipts, that should -hopefully- be enough to give a potential buyer comfort in executing the purchase. Hopefully we see more D2C type sales going forward so the original coin owner keeps the full share of the profit pie!
     
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  21. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member


    Hm, those prices really are crazy. I paid GBP 28 for the first coin below about 15 years ago and EUR 34 for the second coin from a French seller 6 years ago. They are not quite as nice as the coin in the thread above, but the difference is not worth 400 or 700 euros.

    Screenshot 2021-03-15 at 18.04.26.png

    Screenshot 2021-03-15 at 18.06.50.png
     
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