How can a PROOF be an MS65???

I agree that not all first strikes are MS70's but the likelyhood that they may be of the highest quality is there. A MS 70 struck at the end of a set of dies life is unlikely but not impossible.

Hobo is right about a proof coin always being a proof coin, as a MS coin is always a business strike coin.

Bruce

 

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I understood your point in the first post Mark. Now please try and understand mine.

Yes, I am familiar with the Sheldon scale which is applied to both MS coins and PR coins. I've also garnered from reading your past posts and your background that you are a "coin in hand" person. So far we agree totally.

My "crooked" point harkens back to the "ebay land of the uninformed" comment I made. You have a lot of people looking at the Redbook etc for coin "values". In many cases an MS65 is worth more than a PR65. A "knowledgeable" dealer uses MS65Proof? So which "value" is the potential bidder going to look at?

I don't share your pedigree but I have been at this for quite some time. I can honestly tell you that I have NEVER seen a coin marked like this. I, personally, would make the mistake one way or the other but not both as it IS only one or the other.

clembo

 

Once a Proof, always a Proof even if the coin is heavily circulated.

Here is a great example on eBay. This coin is an 1877 Indian Head Cent - the key date of the series. Grey Sheet Ask for this coin in Good is $800.

The coin in the auction is a heavily-circulated Proof graded by ANACS as PF 8. This coin is identifiable as a Proof because it has the "Bold N" reverse used only for Proof strkes in 1877. Business strike coins that year used the "Shallow N" reverse. (The 'N' is in the word 'ONE'.)

ANACS correctly graded this coin PF 8 because, even though it is heavily circulated, it is still a Proof.

(An interesting quirk about 1877 IHCs is that Proof coins are less expensive than Uncirculated examples in the same grade.

Grey Sheet Ask is:

MS-60 $3,000 PF-60 BN $2,200
MS-63 -$4,050 PF-63 RB $2,750
MS-64 RB $7,100 PF-64 RB $3,400
MS-65 RB $11,000 PF-65 RB $5,500)

 

Hobo:
Nice pick up on that piece.
I still wonder how the grading services can tell that it was a proof, even in that condition.

There must be some diagonistics that they can identify.

 

came to see if this was here. that coin does not look proof to me.

-Steve

 

Generally proof coins have wide flat rims and edges due to the strike. Proofs are struck with twice the pressure but half the speed which is what gives the coin a mirrored back ground. Also with business strikes there are many dies that are used but with proofs must the time there are only a small number and with some dates just one set of dies to make them. This has allowed us to have diagnostics for many of the rare proofs. Look at the 1872 2 Cent and the 1885 V Nickel. Vary rare in Unc but half the price or less in Pr.

 

I just received my 1998 S Kennedy Half in Matte Finish... a proof coin graded MS69 by PCGS.

Same scenario, Proof coin graded MS by reputable grading service.

 

I saw a UK halfcrown with a PF-10 grade....(in case you are wondering, all the coins of the year were proofs)

 

Back to this original seller. Check out their complete list of PROOF dimes. Many of them have an MS pedigree listed on the holders. A couple look like regular circulated coins.

PROOF DIMES

 

well there you go! thanks for the note, the info I downloaded (mintage info) had a note 'issued only in proofs'. I'll research that tonight and update my inventory/info.