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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Ian, post: 98622, member: 283&quot;]The 1670 is a `Ducaton&#039; of the Spanish Netherlands. Flanders to be exact , and issued during the reign of Charles II. You will see `FLAN&#039; in the reverse legends top left. </p><p><br /></p><p>The 1627 is again from the Spanish Netherlands and of a type called a `Patagon&#039;. it was issued for and minted at the (now French) city of Artois. Again you can see `ART&#039; in the reverse legend top left. Also (for the sake of interesting trivia) the mint mark for Artois is a rat. You can see the rat above the crown, between REX and PHIL. These Patagons of Artois are now pretty difficult to find. However they are of the same intrinsic design as those from Brabant and Flanders.</p><p><br /></p><p>The large silver coinage of the Spanish Netherlands is notoriously badly made (aka `crude&#039;). The flans were not particularly well prepared not were they particularly well treated during the striking process. The 1670 Ducaton shows stress fractures on it, not necessarily because it was overstruck but just because it probably had impurities in it which caused it to `stress&#039; when struck.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The Russians were no different from many other european countries when it came to `recycling&#039; coinage. Some countries were more overt about it that others. sadly, without records it is usually impossible to determine the underlying `host&#039; coin. There are so many coins that have lances / swords/ sceptres/ in that position that you could spend weeks just checking them off in books. if you want to do that, i&#039;d recommend getting hold of Bachtell&#039;s `World Dollars 1477-1877&#039; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>However, the markings you highlight on your rouble remind me of certain Netherlands coinages, specifically the Daalder. I have a not so wonderful example from Campen (see below). It may be worth your while checking out better examples and from states other than Campen:</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://www.imb4u2.myby.co.uk/stuff/Campen1649rev.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Ian[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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