How about some Talers/Thalers

.....some more bits n' bobs from Austria:-



an early MT taler from Burgau



a late MT taler from Burgau



an MT half taler.



not a half taler but a taler from Hall, and an MT one at that.



an early-ish Hall Taler.

 

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Ian, thank you very much for your wonderful pictures! I think I am beginning to see some hope with a particular coin that I have.

I seem to see some sort of overstriked coins with the Austrian (perhaps Dutch?) thalers.

This is an example that I see:



Ian, can you please tell me more about the 1627 crown? I got some infomation that it is a Spanish Dutch coin.

(sorry, but will have to go OT here)

I am currently researching an Anna ruble that I have that is clearly an overstrike of a foreign coin. The sad fact is that I am not too well versed with European coinages and will need some help here. Some infomation can be read here, which I have posted in coinpeople: http://coinpeople.com/index.php?showtopic=2800

This is the coin that I am facing trouble with:





My best bet is that the underlying coin cannot be a Russian coin as it seems that the scepture is not a typical Russian one, which you can see in red. The Russians were nasty enough to use European crowns in their coinages due to shortage of planchets...

I know I am asking almost an impossible task here but I thought, you might know some European silver crowns that might have a scepture located around that area...

 

The 1670 is a `Ducaton' of the Spanish Netherlands. Flanders to be exact , and issued during the reign of Charles II. You will see `FLAN' in the reverse legends top left.

The 1627 is again from the Spanish Netherlands and of a type called a `Patagon'. it was issued for and minted at the (now French) city of Artois. Again you can see `ART' in the reverse legend top left. Also (for the sake of interesting trivia) the mint mark for Artois is a rat. You can see the rat above the crown, between REX and PHIL. These Patagons of Artois are now pretty difficult to find. However they are of the same intrinsic design as those from Brabant and Flanders.

The large silver coinage of the Spanish Netherlands is notoriously badly made (aka `crude'). The flans were not particularly well prepared not were they particularly well treated during the striking process. The 1670 Ducaton shows stress fractures on it, not necessarily because it was overstruck but just because it probably had impurities in it which caused it to `stress' when struck.

The Russians were no different from many other european countries when it came to `recycling' coinage. Some countries were more overt about it that others. sadly, without records it is usually impossible to determine the underlying `host' coin. There are so many coins that have lances / swords/ sceptres/ in that position that you could spend weeks just checking them off in books. if you want to do that, i'd recommend getting hold of Bachtell's `World Dollars 1477-1877'

However, the markings you highlight on your rouble remind me of certain Netherlands coinages, specifically the Daalder. I have a not so wonderful example from Campen (see below). It may be worth your while checking out better examples and from states other than Campen:



Ian

 

In the chicken/egg context, I think it would be more accurate to call the US silver dollar a Thaler-sized coin.

Despite the un-democratic sound of the term, I really prefer to call both "Silver Crowns", the generic name which includes all the 35-40mm examples from around the world, most of which functioned as trade dollars, whether or not they bore the name.

 

Congtatulations Roy, you win the "Nitpick Award" of the day

Bone

 

Did these European coin makers heat the slugs or old coins when they stamped them? Were coins punched out cold or hot?

 

Thank you kind sir, for conferring an honor I will carrry to my grave.

 

Many thanks Ian!

 

I'm pretty sure that the milled ones were `cold' minted. I'm being cagey about saying `struck' because there were different methods employed. For example, many Austrian and German talers were minted using roller dies, that is the flan was passed through what was intrinsically a pair of rollers. That's why some of them have a bevel to them and many aren't exactly `round'.

The crude Spanish Netherlands ones....to be honest, i'm not exactly sure how they were treated...except amazingly badly (by all appearances).

There are also some rather exceptional pieces too. They aren't all quite so crude as the ones I have shown, just the vast majority.

Ian

 

Edited - Buy/sell/trade posts for third parties are still buy/sell/trade posts. I have to choose between collecting non-British Commonwealth coins or getting a brand new laptop computer.I have chosen to get some money together so I can buy the computer & concentrate on the British & British Commonwealth area of numismatics.

Aidan.

 

Another Taler (from Poland)

 

Very nice, thank you for posting a picture of your coin. That Habsburg Jaw sure got around

Regards
Ben

 

You bet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_II_Casimir_of_Poland

 

Danzig Thaler.

Antidote,this Thaler is from Danzig,even though it was issued during the reign of King Jan Casimir of Poland.The Danzig Coat-of-Arms on the reverse of the coin is the giveaway.That is a very nice coin,by the way.

Aidan.

 

Yes, I know. The coin told me so - "Moneta nova civitatis Gedanensis" :whistle:

 

Wow, now, I have to consider changing directions for my collection.
Those pictures were great!

gxseries: did you consider sending the coin to a TPG'er? PCGS or NGC should be able to certify the overstrike.
That would certainly enhance the piece, and its value.
I am amazed that you caught that, the overstrike.