hone your grading skills -- classic head large cent

That is why I also suggested the PCGS grading guide---I have the old PCGS grading guide and it is great with good photos and lots of info on where the highpoints are in the area of counterfeiting.

Speedy

 

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VF20 1810 over 09. Sweet coin!!!

 

It's a wonderful coin. I'd guess that PCGS would grade this as XF40. I'd personally grade it at VF35. Great color.

 

Can someone point out where the 10 over 9 is showing up. All I see is a little spot on the bottom of the 0 sticking out. Is that it ? Thanks .

 

What an idiot. ME ... that is. In looking at the 0 over the nine I forgot about the 1 over the 0. Now it all makes sense. Thanks. Maybe I'll provide a more challenging question next time. Thanks again. I also think the coin will be graded higher than I first thought. I now think it will be VF30.

 

Thanks for all the comments, questions, and guesses!

PCGS graded the coin VF 20. As others have noted, it is an 1810/09, otherwise known as Sheldon 281.

My thoughts on the coin are as follows:

The coin has great color and a nice planchet, which is why I first noticed this coin. For those of you who have tried to acquire a classic head large cent, you know just how hard this is to find. Virtually all of the examples of this coin you see are either dark, corroded, recolored, or all of the above. Even fresh off the presses these coins were of poor quality. This is because during the time that most classic head large cents were made, planchets were being shipped from England (and for a time during the war of 1812, not at all). At the time, the planchets had to make a long sea voyage in the hold of a wooden ship. Not exactly a condusive environment for copper, and as a result the planchets were often corroded even before striking. Finding an unmolested coin with a nice corrosion free planchet is not an easy task. Finding one that has some detail left with nice color and is affordable is even harder yet.

Back to the coin.... The obverse seemingly has a bit more detail than your normal VF 20, but it does have several significant contact marks. Nothing that would cause it not to be holdered, but I think PCGS chose to net grade it lower because of this. The strike is about average for this coin. IMHO, PCGS may have undergraded this coin. I grade it VF 25+.

It took a little over a year to find an example of the classic head large cent for my type set. I hope to collect these by redbook variety eventually, but judging by how long it took to find a single example I liked and could afford, this will take a very long time to accomplish.

Have fun...Mike

 

I have a question for you leadfoot - as you mention a lot of the large cents are corroded. How do you adjust what you think the coin is worth. My local dealer as a couple (if I recall) 1809 and 1810 that have better details than the coin you posted. I mean you could see the center of the stars, etc. BUT they had a corrosive quality to them - I still thought they were great coins, but for about 400 bucks I had to pass.

 

Valuation is, in the end, a personal thing. To make a wishy-washy statement even further, it really depends on just how bad the corrosion is. Sometimes it can decrease the value by a factor of ten, other times it is only a 20% discount, sometimes it is "market graded" into the grade of the coin, and other times it is completely overlooked.

Personally, I don't like corrosion for my more expensive coins. Having corrosion on a coin that costs $10 or $20 is one thing, but for $400, I would sure want a coin without corrosion problems, except if they were very light and/or confined to the reverse, and even then the coin would have to be remarkable in other ways (perhaps very rare). I think you did well to pass on it, as a problem coin will always be a problem.

If you are inexperienced and trying to purchase a classic head large cent worth a significant amount of money, I highly suggest you purchase one in PCGS plastic from a reputable dealer. A raw classic head large cent in a local dealer's inventory will in all likelihood be a problem coin. While PCGS certainly has faults, it is without question that the average classic head large cent in PCGS plastic will be a problem free coin with a relatively accurate grade. IMHO, they do very well with grading this series, as they do with most pre 1900 coins. I cannot say the same thing for NGC or ANACS, particularly with respect to classic head large cents.

I would also suggest you try and learn, in detail, how to grade the series. Not only will it help you in grading other coins, but it will allow you to spot both well and poorly graded coins. Even PCGS over and undergrades coins and it is important in getting a "good deal" that you find a coin that is strong for the assigned grade, or be able to negotiate effectively should you find an appealing, yet overgraded coin. Both the ANA grading guide, the original Sheldon work, the PCGS grading guide, and the Heritage Auction Archives are all valuable tools to this end.

You should also try and view as many coins in your hands as possible. It is truly amazing how much you can learn just by looking at a large number of examples. You will figure out pretty quickly what "looks good" and what "looks bad".

Hope this helps...Mike

 

I also have a question for you leadfoot, As you know I have just started collecting Large Cents so I really need to learn how to grade these.

I said PCGS EX 40 because I read some where that they usually way over grade Large cents.
I said VF 30 net VF 20 because of the nicks on the obverse.
Do you think if this coin did not have those nicks and it had smooth surfaces it would have made VF 30?
By the way, THANKS for your answers and help in another thread I started! :thumb:

 

Pcgs Vf30

 

Sweet coin. Care to tell us how much it cost?

 

FWIW, I do not believe that PCGS overgrades large cents. I really think they do a good job on this series. Moderns are another story entirely.

Yes, I do think they net (market) graded the coin lower because of the aforementioned nicks, and I think your original guess (VF 30 net VF 20) is very similar to my own grade and the way that PCGS graded the coin.

Hope this helps...Mike

 

No I do not, but I did send you an IM.

 

A little late but:

PCGS: VF-20 maybe VF-25
My grade: BB, left obverse field is severely scratched