Home Safe to store coins

I want to acquire a safe for my home. Gun safes are the size I would like to give enough space for my collection to grow. My question is - what affect will the carpeting in said safes do to my coins? Does anyone know of a safe that doesn't have any carpeting which provides shelves. Has anyone bought a gun safe and removed the carpeting? Look forward to any suggestions and/or stores to shop on-line. Thanks.

 

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I hope this old thread helps some. I hung onto it when I saw it as I was also seeking advice/experiences with safes as well as using humidity control silica and such within safes and safe deposit boxes in banks: "Safe Condition"

 

What about fumes from carpet?

I enjoyed the link. Very informative. I am wondering about the fumes that are released from carpeting in the safes. I am a coin collector, no a paper collector. Do you have any other references?

 

there are probably more, use the Advanced Search feature above.

 

Thanks for the tip on using advanced search feature.

 

I got 3 safes, 2 guns 1 mid size for coins. My guns are stack ons about 400 lbs not fire proof, just store some .22s bolt actions, 12 guages, 9mms and ALOT of ammo. As for coins, i use just a regulaur carpeted sentnry safe, works fine rule 1 i suggest though:

If your buying a electronic safe combination with no key ovveride, and its not a really high end model, be sure you can saw through it LOL.

 

I got this safe and it is very versatile. It comes with the silica packs to absorb moisture. My thought is if gun finishes don't get tainted or corroded coins won't either but I am no expert. But this is a good safe.

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_101702____SearchResults

 

EEA if you want a very and i mean like a very long term safe, that is 2-4 hour fire protection up to a 6 inches of steel, 20+ locking bolts look no further:

http://www.ftknox.com/

 

If you've got to the point that you need a safe, then you ought to be looking at insurance too.
And the most well known coin insurer requires a Class-B safe (2 hour, 1800 degree fire protection).

 

Is that the Hugh Wood (I think) policy through the ANA?

Chris

 

Correct

 

I thought Hugh Wood required a tl-15 or tl-30? or is that the same thing. they told me that gun safes dont cut it, I was able to find a tl-30 for pretty cheap.

 

@ TJ - I don't know if you own a gun or not but when I clean mine it gets a fine coat of oil for corrosion prevention.

 

Hugh Wood has several different plans and the requirements change as do the premiums.
On the small plan I have they didn't care about the type of safe.

TL-15 rating means it takes 15 or more minutes to break in, using tools.

I saved this from one of the coin forums a few years ago. It may help someone.....


Safe Ratings

Burglary Ratings

* B1 — Theft resistant (minimum security)
* B2 — Underwriters’ Laboratories Residential Security Container label
* B3 — Non-rated anti-theft (incorporates features of high security safes
without a UL rating)
* B4 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-15 label
* B5 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-30 label
* B6 — Underwriters’ Laboratories TL-30X6 or TRTL-30 label

Fire Ratings

* FR — Fire resistant unrated insulated safe
* 1/2 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 30 minutes with outside temperature of 1550 degrees.
* 1 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 1 hour with outside temperature of 1700 degrees.
* 1 hr+ — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 1 hour with an outside temperature of 1700 degrees, plus survived drop test from 30 feet.
* 2 hr — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 2 hours with an outside temperature of 1850 degrees.
* 2 hr+ — UL class 350. Protects valuables for up to 2 hours with outside temperature of 1850 degrees, plus survived drop test onto rubble from 30 feet

UL Underwriters' Laboratories (UL) - UL is a non-profit, non-bias agency that tests and rates the safety and performance of consumer products. Safes that have earned specific UL ratings will carry a UL label which designates the product's security and fire-protection ratings.

* Net Working Time - This is the UL term for testing time which is spent trying to break into a safe using tools such as diamond grinding wheels, high-speed drills with pressure applying devices, or common hand tools such as hammers, chisels, saws, and carbide-tip drills. If a safe has been rated with a 30-minute net working time, (TL30), the rating certifies that the safe successfully withstood a full 30 minutes of attack time with a range of tools.
* Theft resistant - This rating means the safe provides a combination lock and minimal theft protection.
* Residential Security Container rating (RSC) - This UL rating is based on testing conducted for a net working time of five minutes, on all sides, with a range of tools.
* TL-15 rating - The TL-15 rating means the safe has been tested for a net working time of 15 minutes using high speed drills, saws and other sophisticated penetrating equipment.
* TL-30 rating - A product carrying the TL-30 security label has been tested for a net working time of 30 minutes with the same types of tools mentioned above.
* TL-30 x 6 - The TL-30 (30-minute) test is conducted on all six (6) sides of the safe.
* TRTL-30 - The TRTL rating designates a safe which successfully resisted 30 minutes of net working time with a torch and a range of tools which might include high speed drills and saws with carbide bits, pry bars, and other impact devices.

Fire Ratings

* Impact test - The UL impact test calls for the safe to be heated to 1550 degrees for 30 minutes (1638 degrees for a 2-hour fire rated safe) then dropped onto concrete rubble from a height of 30 feet. The safe is then turned upside down and reheated for another 30 minutes (45 minutes for a 2-hour fire rated safe). During this process, it must maintain its integrity and protect all contents in order to pass the UL impact test.
* Explosion hazard test - All UL fire-rated safes must undergo this test, during which the unit is inserted into a pre-heated 2000 degree oven. If the safe is not constructed properly, the rapid heating will likely cause an explosion.
* FR - Fire resistant, unrated insulated safe - This product is awaiting UL approval.
* Class 350 1/2-hour fire rating - During this test, the safe is heated for one-half hour to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees. Because paper will begin to char at approximately 400 degrees, the unit being tested must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees during heat-up and cool-down testing in order to earn its rating.
* Class 350 1-hour fire rating - To earn this rating, the safe is heated for one hour to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees, then put through the cool-down test. During this time the safe must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees.
* Cool-down test - This procedure is a key part of UL's fire testing procedures. After a one- or two-hour fire rating test, the safe is left in the oven for cool-down time with the heat turned off. Because of the intensive heat of one- and two-hour tests, the temperature inside the safe will continue to rise for up to one hour after the oven is turned off. To pass UL testing, the safe's interior temperature may not exceed 350 degrees at any time during heat-up or cool-down procedures.
* Class 350 1-hour fire & impact label - The safe has passed both UL impact testing and Class 350 1-hour fire testing (see above).
* Class 350 2-hour fire rating - The safe is heated for two hours to reach an exterior temperature of 1550 degrees and must maintain an interior temperature of less than 350 degrees to earn this rating. Class 350 2-hour rating and impact label - The safe has passed both UL impact testing and Class 350 2-hour fire testing (see above).



1. Test attack against the door and front face:
1. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-15
2. Tool-Resistant Safe - Deposit Safe
3. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-30
4. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-30

2. Test attack against the door and body:
1. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-15X6
2. Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TL-30X6
3. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-15X6
4. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-30X6
5. Torch- and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TRTL-60X6
6. Torch-, Explosive-, and Tool-Resistant Safe - Class TXTL-60X6


There was an news article recently in CoinWorld about a burglary and how a collector/dealer’s safe was “smashed”. The manufacturer of the safe was listed and I was not at all surprised that the thieves demolished the safe. The manufacturer given is a major supplier of gun safes, not security safes.

Gun safes are usually made with a body of SHEET metal (steel), 12 gauge, 14 gauge, etc. and a steel plate (usually 1/4 in or less) for the door. Security safes employ steel PLATE, ¼”, ½”, 1” or greater and often have additional composite material to provide defense against various attacks (drill, torch, peel, etc). Security safes are rated on a letter scale, B, C, D, ... with B being a general catch all for 1/4” body and 1/2” steel door. There is also an Underwriter’s Laboratory rating (UL) such ad TL-15, TL30, and so on. The “15”, “30” , etc. on are measures of a the MINIMUM time it takes a professional to break in, the UL personnel that conduct the tests are pros.

Gun safes usually look pretty and have lots of thick locking bolts that give a false sense of security. Steel sheet metal is easy to break into, the local kid with an axe, crowbar and other tools can get in in no time. That thick fire resistant material between the sheet metal is just that, thick material to provide fire protection, NOT buglary protection.

One half inch or more of hardened steel with a drill resistance hardplate protecting the lock, glass or other relocking devices, drill resistant pellets and fibers between the lawyers of PLATE, and so on will discourage all but the most professional burglars. Time is the key to a good safe, not lots of locking bars.

The best jewelry safes may have a industrial diamond impregnated hardplate, slabs of copper to thwart torch attacks, multiple randomly placed relockers, and even layers (safe within a safe).

I would never store coins in a gunsafe and never buy one of those nice looking safes for sale at coin shows, A fairly “safe” safe is going to cost about $1000 for a good TL-15 safe (500 lbs or more).

Safest place for coins – a safe deposit box in one of those 50 year old bank vault safes that were build to withstand a nuclear attack.


-------------------------
Dave (PA)

 

i am glad this thread was made. for some reason i was under the impression that gun safes were a big no no, especially if you keep guns in with the coin? i have a great gun safe, it was my grandfathers and was a few grand, i will have to look at it for the specs, but i know its fire resistant. i don't keep my coins in there because i heard they were not good for it?

second, i know safety deposit boxes at the bank are suppose to be safe but it seems the banks in my town get robbed once a week! this past time, they hit the bank i keep my coins in and actually went after a few boxes! this really scares me, because not only are the coins in that box worth money, they are not replaceable. they were gifts from family members and been in my girls family for a long time.

i actually feel safer keeping them at home, with the right safe. nobody at the bank would try and stop a bank robber from going after my box, but at my house i could. in fact i would find it entertaining.

for the OP, get a safe that bolts down from the inside! this is very important, your safe is not very safe if 1 or 2 guys could pick it up and take it with them. get the one with the best fire and theft ratings you can afford, insurance has there own guidelines. so if you plan on insurance, check with them to see what they require. personally i wouldn't go with the electronic lock, with no key override. electronic ones are the best, as far as safety goes, but if the safe goes crazy or gets hot from fire, you will need to override. so if you can afford it, go with a top of the line electronic lock that also requires a key at the same time to open. seems like a lot, but even i can pick a key lock and combo lock. i had training on it, but i am sure there are thieves that can also. all it takes is one thief to teach a friend and so on. for inside the safe silica packets, will help keep the moisture out of the air. last but not least, location. were you bolt your safe is very important. you want to keep it out of view, but easily accessible in the case of emergency. recently i have heard of more people bolting these in their attics. not a good idea! they are the breathing point of your house, so in case of fire, that would be disastrous. heat up there is not good for coins either, very bad. basements also seem popular, but would not recommend it because of the moisture. in the end only you know your house layout.

 

@dionhurst...I do the same but I was just speaking in general terms. But while we on the topic, do you know if the carpet vapors cause a problem for the coins? I have my guns, ammo and coins together in the safe together. Most of my guns are stainless but my M-4s have a matte finish and they have faired well. Thanks and let me know what you think.

 

There is no way to know for sure about the carpet, glue or paint. Too many kinds. It's a risk. I think most folks agree it's not good to store guns with coins. Same thing there, too many types of solvents and oils.

 

I would agree with idhair because there are so many things that are in carpets (chemicals) and these are always changing so you don't know what vapors could be released from chemicals in them.

 

How do you have a m4, i thought that comes from a m16 and the civilian model of a m16 is a ar15

 

To be more specific:

Can some one recommend a 1-1.5 cubic foot safe, just for coins with make and model(s) for around $300?

Thanks!