So I saw this coin, which is worth in the $200 to $300 range, going for 10x that and from a 0 feedback seller as well. Taking a look at the bids and the bidder histories, this may be the most blatant and shameless case of shill bidding I have ever seen. The ones that appear to be legitimate bidders dropped out at $250, which is around what examples in this grade routinely go for at auctions. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=252592517241&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565 Just wow.
A closer look at the rest of his auctions reveals a_whole_bunch of suspicious bidding from members with (fairly) large Feedback ratings. Methinks one or more of those are behind this "seller."
If a shill bidder wins, they simply cancel the sale, so no fees. However, some of the high bidders and runner ups only have like 17% of bids with this seller. That is not that fishy to me.
17% of 220 bids is a pretty large number, especially if that's a seller's buying account and it's bidding the coin well over the point where someone with 400 Feedbacks ought to know where to stop....
It wouldn't surprise me if someone caught on to what the seller was doing (not very hard to do in this example) and began outbidding the shiller as a way to prevent an innocent person from getting ripped off. Also to possibly get the seller's hopes up but then not paying in the end. The best shill bidders and most cunning scammers will be virtually indistinguishable from legit bidders. In other words, they will shill using accounts with very large feedback and low same seller bid percentages. That is why as a bidder you should ALWAYS stay within your limit! In this example however the possible shilling isn't well disguised at 17% and insane run up in price.
you should know when you want/need to stop bidding. unless you have to have that coin. that coin was so ugly and got huge money.
Mountainside, NJ Sounds very familiar to me. May be from my stamp collecting days. No good/bad memories.
So who gives a crap? You, as a buyer, are responsible to know what the market value of a coin is. If you bid more than that because someone else bid you up then that is YOUR fault--not the shill's.
Correct, but unfortunately there are a LOT of newbies out there who don't know better. When they figure it out later that may turn them off coin collecting. Losing budding collectors is NOT in the interest of the hobby. And, yes, both stamp and coin dealer(s) in Mountainside, NJ. Or one in the same person.
I'm generally inclined to agree with you on the matter of personal responsibility - if you have the means to bid in an online auction then you also have the means to look up what the coin normally sells for. Sometimes not the case with more esoteric pieces, but this one has plenty of recent auction records in a variety of MS grades. But that does not take away from the fact that this is a problem. The responsibility argument basically says don't focus on stopping the scammer, focus on educating the collector. But both of these go hand in hand; stopping the scammer allows for people to stay in the hobby long enough to get educated.
I totally agree. You will never 100% get rid of scammers. As soon as you think you have out smarted them they come up with something new. The best thing you can do is be an informed consumer and not fall for their traps. What boggles my mind is if these sellers took as much effort to just be a quality seller and build good feedback and customer loyalty they would be way more successful than trying to scam eBay bidders into higher bids. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They don't intend to be around long under that seller name, perhaps a few months of good scores at immoral profit levels before some buyer finally forces them off the site. For everyone who's willing to fight, there are six who don't know they've been ripped off and three who don't have the energy or ambition to do something about it.
That's what I question. It seems like a LOT of work to keep up multiple shill accounts. How much more do they really make compared to just having a good reputation. I think most people would happily pay FMV from a trusted seller compared to getting a small bargain from someone you can't trust. Maybe moral people like myself just will never understand... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Shilling someone up is essentially the same as having a high buy it now price. I do not think it is right, but I don't really think of it as a scammer. You cannot force someone to overpay for a coin. They can do that whether it is a buy it now or an auction.
Really have to disagree with you across the board on that. People are not logical by nature. The competition aspect really does work. That is the M.O. that keeps the scammers at it. Enough people get caught up in the game to make it worth it for them to continue.
