Hobby & Investing…

Now it's 99 million and it hasn't even been four hours. What a country!

 

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I knew it would surpass the million dollar raw SBAs on fleabag!

 

These are ads I'm seeing on google-chrome. Haven't seen anything for SBA's. But I should see them soon now that they've been mentioned.

 

It's good that you are getting the word out on those.
I bought $1000 face value of really nice ones from a delinquent safety deposit box auction years ago and couldn't find where they were worth more than face value.
Shortly after I turned them back into the wild, I found out some people were paying 2x face on THebay.
KEEP up the good work and yes...

 

Paddy, watch your language, this is a family place.

 

I was in a very bad relationship once. She wouldn’t let me collect no coins. Now I’m in a very good relationship, with a collector. I collect my coins, she collects my cash. Works out just fine.

 

You seem like a very nice person Mimi J who might have some disposable income and would just like to own a few things that are of value to pass on. If I am wrong ignore me.
I will tell you coins make a wonderful HOBBY but even people with years of coin experience often lose money from an investment perspective. Having said that, there are many areas of coins such as classic American coins where the prices are fairly stable. You will not get rich but some coins go up and some go down (No crystal balls ) but either way you get the pleasure of ownership.
My advice to you would be to put your wallet away for 4 to 6 months and just study what coins you like and what prices they sell at. Consider a few books. There are general one's like the Redbook and many specific books about specific coin series. If something catches your interest you will at the very least a basic understanding of what you are purchasing. James. Good luck no matter what you do.

 

2 words:

Barrett-Jackson.

 

OP: Q. David Bowers has dozens of books in print. This one may be of help.

https://www.amazon.com/Experts-Guide-Collecting-Investing-Coins/dp/0794819206/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3F6I1LPHJPH9F&keywords=Q.+David+Bowers+collecting+and+Investing&qid=1706556820&sprefix=q.+david+bowers+collecting+and+investing,aps,218&sr=8-1#

 

Ok I am very much a rookie myself but how is buying silver coins at reasonable prices not a good investment?
I get it that buying a $300 Morgan in great condition is probably for the joy of the coin and not the silver.
In my mind decent coins that can be purchased not to far off of silver spot seems like a reasonable investment.
Also that $300 Morgan could be an investment as well when later down the road another coin enthusiast is willing to pay you $350 for it? As the old saying goes "they're not making any more of them". The longer time goes by the less of these old silver u.s. coins will be available.
I can see that for example a set of clad state quarters may still not be worth more than face value, but silver coins?
Show me where I'm wrong please.

 

I have been collector for 65 years, and was a dealer for about 14 years. I made money as a dealer, which included both the wholesale and retail markets.

Given that, here's my advice.

Frankly you are better off enjoying the hobby, and staying away from the idea of buying to make money. Aside from the dealing aspect, I have made money in coins the say way invest mavin Bernard Baruch advised. "Make money with your ... butt ... Buy land and sit on it." That's how I've made money with a lot of the collector coins I have.

I have found it hard to sell coins to dealers for fair prices once I stopped being a dealer.

It seems like they obsessed with better and "key dates." I like some common coins, but many collectors don't. I think that the prices are too high for those "key dates" relative to their rarity, but that's what I found when I was dealer.

They buy stuff like the 1937-D Three Legged Buffalo Nickel, which is really a common coin. When I was dealer, if I could buy one for the Grey Sheet bid, it was an easy way to make a fast $100.

If you are spending any serious money, the answer is "Yes" in the U.S. field. Getting coins graded is expensive, and it takes a lot more expertise to buy raw coins. Counterfeits are a real problem now, and you need to know what you are doing. My advice is the buy the coin in the holder you want, and leave the crack-out game to the pros. I cracked out some stuff when I was dealer and did well. But that's me. I'm coin nut.

Grading is not as accurate and avoiding counterfeits on slabs. You need to know how to grade coins. There is no way around it, unless you find an honest dealer. CAC is not "the panacea" that some people make it out to be.

I also collect British and Imperial Roman. I prefer those coins raw, and so do many dealers, BUT you need to know how to grade and spot the fakes.

No.

Collector demand is more important than rarity. You can have the rarest piece in the world, but no one wants it, the price is low.

Mintages are only part of the answer. What's more important is how many coins survive? AND, even more important, do collectors want the coin? That is key.

The 1880 gold dollar has a mintage of 1,600. That sounds great, but about 1,000 of them have survived. The coins were well made, and many have a P-L look. Collectors are attracted to them because of the low mintage, but don't go overboard because of it. Here's mine. I like gold dollars, so that's why I have one.



As for mintages, buy a copy of the Red Book. Its lists all of them.

I am no fan of modern coins as "an investment." The survival rates are very high, and "the good ones" are often hyped for a while until the next fad comes along. After that, many of them gather dust.

Here's an example. In the 1960s, when I was a kid collector, the 1960 Small Date Cent in Proof sold for $50 when $50 was "real money." My 2024 Red Book says it's worth $7 retail in PR-65, Red. That's $7 in today's "lucky bucks." If you bought one for $50 back then, you are up the creek without a paddle. I can cite many more examples.

Proof sets have been dead for years. I have a run from 1936 to date simply because I like them. Some of the old ones have held their values, but the new ones, since 1970, are dead and buried.

I have never cared for Mint Sets. I bought and sold some of the old double sets, which ended in 1958, when I was a dealer, but it's specialized area. A lot of those sets have been cherry picked for the higher grade pieces.

I am a freelancer. I buy from all over the place, but I have some dealers I look up right away at the shows and others I would not touch with a ten foot pole. Having said that I once bought a very expensive coin from one them. He had the right coin at the right price, and probably needed the five figure sum for some reason and knew I was good for it.

I probably have not told you what you wanted to hear, but I've given you my honest opinions.

 

Now THAT’S what I’m talkin about! I’ll send my husband’s number, maybe she can have a little talk with him! Ha ha!

 

Thank you for taking the time to give some advice. Unfortunately I do not have disposable income but would like to make enough money to support the hobby. Sounds like that isn’t achievable, so I need to reconsider some things. Thanks again.

 

Thank you.

 

Wow! Thank you so much for your kindness and honesty! My father in law had a ton (to me) of coins I haven’t even looked at yet. But the ones I’ve seen are extremely worn. I guess those will be good to pass down for the history of it. Now to find a local HONEST coin dealer….

 

don't want to high jack anyone's thread and you gave some good advice johnmilton, but to write off all auctions is a little high handed.
You mat not like the fee structures at Heritage Auctions or Stackbowers auctions but several hundred thousand collectors disagree with you. Great Collections is a company that has worked very hard to offer collectors both a cheaper fee structure and access to numerous coins. Universal statements rarely are the truth. James

 

"Well actually" they have been making them again.

I pretty much agree with you though. IMO, anyone who is smart enough and disciplined enough can make money in coins. But many coin collectors are whimsical, not disciplined.
And hardly any at all can speak in tounges or shape-shift themselves, two skills that would be very handy in understanding the "finer intricacies" of U.S Coin Grading.

 

I don’t trust auction houses. You do. Point taken. The spirit of the OP was, is there an auction house you trust?

There are small auctions, like Steve Hayden, which I do respect. Have you ever seen an auction house advise their bidders not to bid more and give them the opportunity to withdraw their bids because the photo was not indicative of the true look of the item? Steve Hayden did on a CSS Virginia iron token that had rust in the holder.

Having been burned by an auction house that “found” a snail mail bid the day after the hammer had fallen on a live auction and a photo that misrepresented the look of a piece, I’ll say yea. No auction major house gets my unconditional endorsement.

 

Not much new to add after all the replies. When you say investment it implies making good profits, and that's hard, especially on US coins and not a lot of prior knowledge. If you buy something by being the highest bidder on eBay, odds are you paid what it's worth and then some. The good news is your coins will always have value. Unlike Beanie Babies, you or your heirs will be able to get a lot of that money back out of it someday.

 

I agree with our fellow enthusiasts that collecting as an investment at a meaningful level is unlikely. Collect what you like without judgement.

I have a few key coins that may or may not appreciate and if they do, not by much for many years. And then you need a buyer willing to pay full price. Probably unlikely. So, unless you deal in volume, you’re probably going to come up break even at best. I plan to pass my key coins down. It’ll be anyone’s guess if they’ll hold onto them to make a small profit.