Hoardesr at coin auctions.

As you won the first bid at $30 for choice, means you out bid them atleast once, so their cut off was less than $30. They may have a feeling that silver's going up, so they want to stock up on it now.

I probably would of taken them all too and waited for PM's to go up

I think the main problem you have is (they have more money than ME)

 

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Exactly. Working only part time on min wage, (and now without a job), I can only add to my collection slowly.

If they want to buy silver coins on volume, they should look somewhere else, you can get whole bags of 90% junk silver coins for not much over spot.

 

At auctions, there are a lot of regulars. They go for fun and recreation and they get a thrill from winning auctions. Not everyone goes to buy things to make a profit on them. A guy I knew would buy things that just looked nice and pay even more than retail for them. Then he shipped the stuff to relatives overseas. It didn't matter to him. He just enjoyed the atmosphere of the auction room.

People who overbid, do so for any number of reasons and there's nothing you can do about it except accept the fact that they exist.

 

The only issue I have with this is the falsely driven high prices.
There is no value to any market if a wealthy person buys and buys and buys just to have some material item - it makes the market nearly unobtainable for the average collector.
If I want a specific piece for my collection and can only afford to pay fair current market value, then get blasted out simply due to greed, it leaves a foul taste on may levels.
It even makes one wonder, or reconsider, collecting in the first place.
That's just my take on it. Real collectors that are in it for the hobby side of things like myself will simply lose interest vs. hoarders.
There's a huge difference, and while they can spend they're riches any way they see fit, I don't much care to defend them.

 

:yes:

Maybe the people bidding and winning all the coins are simply taking them elsewhere and having someone sell them at a nice profit, like a different country. People with money usually have it because they're very careful with researching everything they buy. Could be that you're reading too much into this as far as them being rich and simply buying coins just to hoard them. just a thought. :thumb:

 

I am just curious about a couple of things. "fair current market value" what is that? Redbook? You do know for a price guide listing to rise someone has to be paying OVER the listed amount for a while, right? I simply do not know what a "fair current market value" would be. Earlier I talked about some coins I bought. The current market on them on Ebay was less than $20. I bought every single coin. Was I greedy and not allow others to buy at a "fair current market value"? Today those same coins go for $80-150 each, as Cleo VII is the "famous" one.

I am not trying to pick on you, just make a point that in collectibles there IS no predefined values, its what someone will pay. Now if you are inconvenienced by someone at an auction you are at paying $30 for a coin you can buy at a coin show for $27, then you profit by your superior knowledge and obtain the item for less. Same as the people buying on the TV shows, you know better so you can afford more coins for your hard earned dollar. Now, if you CAN'T buy the same coin at a coin show, then just maybe that buyer knew its true value better than you. Its always about knowledge in coin collecting.

I simply view it as "Boy, am I glad I am not THAT guy, and thankfully I know where to get it cheaper."

 

I agree. While it may not do any good, I think next time I will ask if I could bid on a few things and have them bid on the rest. Maybe they will leave me alone on a couple items.

 

I can understand your sentiment, but an auction has 2 sides. What about the person who is having their goods sold. Shouldn't they get the best price they can? Perhaps they are in as dire straits as your self.

 

I simply view it, in this case, as a power grab.
A snobbish, arrogant "I'm rich and you're not, how dare you commoners try and snipe me" attitude.
While that may or may not be the case, that would be my perception.

If people like that are in it for the investment, there are hundreds of other ways to obtain investment items.
I'm all for people working for their wealth, but throwing it around in spite of is in very poor taste - even for a snob.
Most of us don't have that luxury....and it's that group I will defend - i.e. collectors.
I think a knowledgeable collector knows what fair market value is for a specific item. Be it Redbook or whatever other reference most of us use. Not 'I need that item no matter what'!
I just lose interest - and I don't really want to go there.

 

Who do you think is putting the majority of coins in the auction anyways??? It's almost always a dealer. I get calls all the time from auction houses asking me for coins.

Personally we put on a 500 lot auction about every 2 months.

 

Detecto, If your only work, when you can get it, is, as you stated earlier, minimum wage jobs,
you don't belong at auctions, you belong in front of the junk bin at your local B&M coin shop.

You, sir, are NOT a spacone, so should not try to play like one.

 

That sounds a lot like collusion to me.

collusion - a secret agreement, especially for fraudulent or treacherous purposes; conspiracy

From COLLUSION AS VIEWED BY AN ECONOMIST

 

Maybe we could create a law stating that if someone makes over "X" dollars per year that they are not allowed to bid in auctions!
Um... no.

You have the choice to bid when, where, and for how much you want.
They have the same options.
You are asking for special treatment because you have less money. Why don't you just ask for them to buy the coins for you?

 

Less wealthy people do what they have to sometimes - of course we all know wealthy people never collude or conspire....

 

Let's take a look at some of the things you said:

Keep in mind most estate auctions are exactly that, liquidating the estate of a (usually) deceased person. Usually it's the family who hires the auctioneer because they want to get rid of the stuff quickly. Guess what, as the family, they have every right to liquidate (or "take") their loved one's assets.

So, are you actually a collector, or looking to buy and make a profit. The old adage "it takes money to make money" holds true today. You won't get rich on a limited budget, no matter how hard you try.

They eliminate good deals for you. I'm inclined to believe if they were willing to pull the trigger, they thought it was a good deal for them. I'm not convinced you're not mad.

Here's the flaw in this thinking...if you beat a dealer's bid at an auction, you can bet you got a pretty good deal, as dealers usually won't pay more than they think they can get a comfortable profit margin from. You won't get $5 Morgans, but you will probably have paid less than retail.

Dangerous strategy. Auction regulars know when this happens, and will play the same game with you. Watch you don't get stuck with something you cannot afford.

Not greedy? Are you saying that because I have more money than you (irregardless of how I legitimately got it) I should be forced to pay more for the same items you want? But this makes you sound envious of those with money. Understand I do not care about your current financial situation. But don't hate the people who were able to work and save, or made wise investments, or even inherited their money from other family members (who, no doubt, worked for that). Again, $27 is NOT an unreasonable price for Peace dollars, as they retail for $35. Seems to me this couple made some pretty good buys. Might be one of the reasons they have "7 figures" in their bank account.

The good and the bad what? Again, there was nothing wrong with the auction you described.

Again, your financial situation is a moot point. This has nothing to do with auction prices. Either find another job, or live within your means. If you're young and just starting out, work your way up the ladder, we all did. If you're laid off due to the economy, I am truly sorry but in my area fast food places, convenience stores, and other service-related industries are always hiring. But again, if this is the case, buying coins should be very low on your priority list.

Why? Why should these people be singled out and excluded from auctions? So you can go in and steal the bargains? Seriously, if somebody tried to tell me what to do with the money I worked hard to earn, they probably won't like my attitude.

Do you understand how an auction works? The auctioneer is hired by the owner of the merchandise, and charged with selling the items at the best price he can. He makes his money by taking a percentage of the total auction take, usually ranging from 12-35%. That's from the gross sales. So obviously, the auctioneer wants to get the best possible prices for this merchandise. Ever notice how the actioneer builds and plays the crowd? You've complained about a "buyer's premium". Do you know what that is? By law a buyer's premium has to be disclosed. It's your responsibility to read the terms and conditions. It's an added cost by the auctioneer to increase his profit, usually passing on a smaller percentage of the sales to the seller (and yes, it's a capitalist society, you are allowed to make money. If this doesn't appeal to you, don't attend auctions). They aren't yard sales, nor are they give-away events. Sure, there are bargains to be had, but with the amount of information available today, people know (or have a general idea) what they're bidding on. I can check current coin pricing on my smart phone, from my seat at the auction. One of my new pastimes is to go to a local auction on a Saturday, then go to the local flea market on Sunday and see what the buyers at yesterday's auction are asking for the stuff above what I know they paid for it 24 hours prior. Alot of bidders are there to resell the stuff they buy on eBay. These are probably the biggest reasons auctions go over well today. Is this fair? Why not? I lose some stuff I wanted, but guess what, another will come up another day. I actually came home from an auction featuring coins and said to my wife "Pack up my collection, I'm taking it to Dean's! With the prices he's getting today I can sell all my stuff, and afford to start over!" Yep, it was that bad. Didn't buy anything that day. But I didn't lose any sleep over it, either.

Honestly, all I get from your posts is a sense of entitlement, that you think the world owes you something because some have it better than you. Maybe you have legitimate questions, and your presentation doesn't reflect them. But I'm thinking from reading all your posts that my initial impression is closer.

 

I agree with everything Omahaorange wrote in his post (#35).
It couldn't have been said better!

 

I am both a collector and I look to buy and make a profit.

 

Well, I'm on your side referring to your original post.
IMO a true collector knows and understands the nuances and intricacies of the hobby...the how's and why's.
What is a slider and what is MS70.
Someone that appreciates the lineage and the history of a given coin - even how mints design and produce them - not some wealthy hoarder that enjoys knocking people out of the hobby out of boredom.

And I'm pretty sure you understand how an auction works - that's apparent from the fact that you attend them.
Those that attend auctions on the way to the auto dealer to trade in their 6 month old Escalade are usually out of touch, yet it's evident that money does in fact buy oneself entitlement and privilege....

 

Detecto if you can't break down the castle Gate, Back up and rethink your strategy. I would use these people to my advantage. Start getting your raw coins for cheap elsewhere and provide them for sale at the auction. Complement them, get to know them. The rich are not the enemy.