Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ryro, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    I just found this on Twitter, salivated and thought I'd share:
    In February 2019, the outcome of investigations, arising on the recommendation of the Superintendent archeology, fine arts and landscape for the area of Rome subway, the province of Viterbo and Southern Etruria, the Public Prosecutor of Rome was informed about the discovery, by a citizen, of some archaeological coins. The investigation activities, following the seizure of the 75 coins, proved to be of exceptional historical-archaeological and patrimonial value, having allowed to ascertain that the assets had been found in circumstances of time and place different from those declared, have determined the referral of the discoverer for illicit possession of cultural assets.



    Oh, and please share em if ya got em... I don't... Yet
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
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  3. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    Awesome find!
    tibor likes this.
  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    No, just more scrap metal to be warehoused in the name of forbidding private ownership of coins. Will these be studied, published or just added to a thousand like them in the vaults?
  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Great coins, REALLY bummer big brother is taking control...


    Luceria AES Grave Anonymous 217-215 BCE Uncia 7.35g Frog-Corn Ear pellet retrograde L T-V 285

    RR Aes Grave Uncia 269-240 BCE Astragalus knuckle-bones

    RR AE Aes Grave Sextans 270 BCE 37mm 55.28g Dioscuri R and L

    RR Aes Grave AE Quadrans Dog 3 pellets Six spoked wheel 59.8g Craw 26/6a Th-Vecchi 34

    RR Aes Grave Anon 280-276 BCE Triens 46mm 90.3g 9.3mm thick Tbolt-Dolphin Rome Crawford 14/3 T Vecchi 3
    Paul M., TIF, Multatuli and 10 others like this.
  6. thomas mozzillo

    thomas mozzillo Well-Known Member

    Does your post mean that the person who found them did so illegally? If not, will they be rewarded financially for the discovery?
    Ryro likes this.
  7. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    Precisely. They lied about when and where they found the coins. I wish there were more to the article as it sounds like some Sherlockian sleuthing was employed.
    But ultimately I'm torn. On the one hand, we really do need to know the specific find site to understand the most we can about these coins and the history behind them. And the finder lied and now is in some hot water, instead of the thousands and thousands of euros those coins are worth.
    On the other, as Doug and Gandy have pointed out, these exquisite beauties are now more than likely on their way to the back of a basement wearhouse never to be heard from nor studied, despite presumably now having gotten the correct find site from the finder.
    All I know for sure is that these things look like magic in near perfect condition. Some really neat obvereses going on, especially in the bottom right hand corner...
    Johndakerftw, TIF, ominus1 and 4 others like this.
  8. Theodosius

    Theodosius Unrepentant Fine Style Freak! Supporter

    If their laws were like those of England this never would have happened... when will these other countries adopt laws based on rewarding people instead of wishful thinking?
  9. ro1974

    ro1974 Well-Known Member

    all the coins have the same color and the same details, thats weird
  10. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    Look closer.
  11. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    I've always found aes grave to be intriguing. I'm hyperventilating over this find. I agree with Theodsius in that finders should be encouraged and rewarded. This would promote greater academic investigation of such finds.
    Here are some of my favorites...

    161.jpg 14713_g5629.jpg 98742q00.jpg 98763q00.jpg 1875228l.jpg 1969554l.jpg 2168446l.jpg 4390421.jpg image00017.jpg 1059755l.jpg
  12. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    Thanks for sharing. I Hope someone publishes the find. I am a fan of the big coins and the big books that show them.
    storing Aes Grave 2.JPG
    storing Aes Grave 6.JPG
    Hab tafel 19.JPG
  13. Multatuli

    Multatuli Homo numismaticus Supporter

    I have a few:
    Aes Grave Triens (225-217 B.C.) - Rome mint, 82.7g; Libral standard. Obv: Minerva/four pellets. Rev: prow/ four pellets. Cr. 35/3a; H. pl. 16, 5; T.V. 52. 8 (ex-Jean Elsen)
    Aes Grave Quadrans (275-270 B.C.); Rome mint; Libral standard; 81.56g; Cr 14/4 (ex-Jean Elsen)
    Aes Grave Sextans (275-270 B.C.); Rome mint; Libral standard, 52.84g. Obv: Dioscuri right/two pellets Rev: Dioscuri left /two pellets. Thurlow-Vecchi 12, Cr 18/5 (ex-Jean Elsen)
    Circa 225-217 BC. Æ Aes Grave Quadrans (37mm, 46.09 g, 12h). Libral standard. Rome mint. Head of Hercules left; three pellets (mark of value) to right / Prow of galley right; three pellets (mark of value) below. Crawford 35/4; Thurlow & Vecchi 54; HN Italy 340. Ex Freeman & Sear 2 (31 January 1996), lot 712 (part of). (Ex-CNG).
    Apulia, Luceria 217-212 BC. Aes Grave Biunx (25mm, 18.48 g, 9h). Reduced weight series. Scallop shell / Astralagos; two pellets (mark of value) above, L below. Thurlow-Vecchi 284; HN Italy 677d. From the L.C. Aes Grave Collection. (Ex-CNG).
    Aes Grave Uncia (269-240 B.C.) - Obv and Rev: knucklebone without pellet. 12.82g, 23.9mm. Syd 36a, Cr 21/6, Thurlow-Vecchi 21a (ex-Ancient Imports).

    Attached Files:

    Paul M., EWC3, octavius and 11 others like this.
  14. gsimonel

    gsimonel Supporter! Supporter

    That strikes me as odd, too. But if they were all stored in the same place, and thus subjected to the same environmental conditions and stresses for the past 2,000+ years, then perhaps it's not as surprising/suspicious that they all have similar patinas.
    Nvb and tibor like this.
  15. PMah

    PMah New Member

    I joined this board today after observing for a while, and of course the first post I see is on a key area of interest. Italy certainly needs to work on a pathway out of this morass and find a way to get accurate find reports. Almost all we know about the chronology and economic significance of coinage under the Republic comes from hoards, and black marketing and looting may be wiping out our last opportunities to refine our knowledge. Collectors could do a bit more than simply decry the situation and then buy in.
    I will have to read the source more carefully, but I did not read it to say this was a single hoard, although it appears relatively homogeneous in the photo. Certainly the coins have been cleaned and prepared for something. Sale inquiries and marketing are often what triggers the investigation.
    tibor likes this.
  16. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter Cogito Ergo Sum

    I think it would be wise for the Italian authorities to change their policy. If the coins must be placed in a museum, the finder should receive their just reward, something in the approximation of the fair market value for these coins.
    Paul M., tibor and Severus Alexander like this.
  17. Black Friar

    Black Friar Supporter! Supporter

    I agree with Doug. It can happen here is the State Department and the AIA (American Institute of Archaeological Association) has it's way which involves a lot more than coins.
  18. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus Supporter

    Welcome to the board!
  19. Black Friar

    Black Friar Supporter! Supporter

    This is always an are of concern. The unfortunate problem is that a very high majority of a museums holdings are never seen the public. I volunteered at a museum to help document and enter their collection of coins and medals which the public will never see.

    One of the main reasons is that the cost of an installing an exhibit makes coins a very low priority. The cost of installing a coin vs. a sculpture is the same. More people will come, and more museum donations are available to museums that exhibit popular works of arts to the widest audience that will pay to see them.

    My advice was they investigate selling, or loaning the coins and medals to other museums in exchange for material that would fit their respective areas of specialization. Museums are very conservative in that respect; they have to be to satisfy their supporter.

    The particular collection that I worked on was donated in 1913, organized in 2000, and I was the next person to help them with in 2013. Last year, they finally had the funding to justify their museum photographer to photo the entire collection.

    I all but guarantee they will only be used to augment other exhibits much the same as the Smithsonian has done with their numismatic holdings.
  20. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    I agree with your post. I started collecting Roman scale weights a couple of years ago & struggled understanding how to ID them. My go to book now was written by S. Bendall and includes several weights in a local museum. The weights are not on display, will not be on display soon and they do not need any help cataloging them.
    Bendall Scale Wts C Davis.jpg
  21. Black Friar

    Black Friar Supporter! Supporter

    I use the Bendall book as well though I don't have a large collection of weights. I do grab a repurposed coin used for a weight when I see them.

    A very interesting area of ancient and medieval numismatics.
    rrdenarius likes this.
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