Historic Pricing - U.S. Coins

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by GoldFinger1969, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Nahhh, not all, grading simply doesn't work that way. That's what a lot of folks just don't get about grading. Ya see, each coin type, more than that even, each coin series is unique and requires it's own individual set of grading criteria. And then there are the special cases where a specific date/mint combination of a given series has it own unique grading criteria.
     
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  3. St Gaudens collector

    St Gaudens collector Active Member

    No F-bell lines, F-bands or F-Steps on a saint?...Do not despair.
    I suggest the most important detail is the nose & recommend 3 terms.

    Endomorphic (fat/smashed)
    Ectomorphic (crooked)
    Mesomorphic (perfect)

    I'll offer to inspect the nose and apply the appropriate sticker for a small fee.
    The sticker will be larger than her nose so you don't have to actually look at the coin. My contribution to "sight-unseen" grading.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
    John Skelton and GoldFinger1969 like this.
  4. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I just have the 7th....:D
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Nope, none of those on a Saint so of course they can't have anything to do with grading a Saint.

    However, none of those things have anything to do with grading a Frankie, a Merc, or a Jeff either.

    Ya see that's another thing a lot of folks don't seem to understand, special designations are not part of the grade and have nothing to do with determining the grade of a coin. Special designations, all of them, are an added note and nothing more.
     
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    All I can do is lead ya to the water, I can't make ya drink it ;)
     
  7. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Differentiation = $$$$

    That's why that infamous thread over at CU had such heated posts.
     
  8. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I'll drink, it's just that right now I'm a bit bloated from the 600+ pages Saints book. ;)

    Thanks for the heads-up, Doug !
     
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    In the marketplace, yeah it does, granted. But the question is - should it ?

    Take a Jeff for example, the price difference between of 2 coins - same date/mint same grade, same TPG, but one with the designation and the other without it - the price of the one with it is going to be significantly higher than that of the one without it. But is that price difference justified ?

    Ya see, the coin without the designation might very well have a better strike in all other areas of the coin than the coin with the designation. But the coin without the designation didn't get the designation because there was a break in the lines of the steps. In other words, the coin without the designation is actually the better coin, but yet it sells for less.

    The exact same kind of thing is true with ALL special designations ! So what does that tell you ?

    Well, I dunno what it says to you, but I sure know what it says to me ! It downright screams to me that special designations are nothing more than just so much bull !
     
  10. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Sure, same thing with Saints...sometimes the Capitol is well-struck and other times it looks smeared and you can't see some of the columns.

    But a bad Capitol can sometimes go with a great overall strike and a good Capitol can go with a lousily struck die strike.
     
  11. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Kind of like, in general, why a really nice AU58 can be soooooooooooo much nicer than a crappy MS60.
     
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  12. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Yes...we've talked about this in other threads.
     
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  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Now take it to the next step. When someone pays that premium for the special designation, what are they buying ? Are they buying a coin, or are they buying plastic ?

    The answer's pretty obvious. And, at the same time, it forces a final question, one that everyone must answer - what kind buyer do you want to be ?
     
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  14. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Actually, when you see AU58's trading "rich" or higher than a low-60's MS, you ARE buying the coin and not the label.

    In theory, every MS60 or MS61 should sell for more than an AU58 but that is not always the case.
     
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  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Not necessarily. Ya see, 60s and 61s often look like they came in 8th in an ax fight ! And even 62s often look like they came in 6th. While with 58s, often the only detracting factor is very slight wear on some of the high points.

    And this proves that the "theory" is simply not true at all, it's nothing more than false logic.

    Ya see, that's the problem with trying to have grade establish or determine value - it simply doesn't work ! Grade establishes and determines condition, nothing more.
     
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  16. St Gaudens collector

    St Gaudens collector Active Member

    Saints are a weird one where that is true.

    You could drag a 29 around the world as a pull-toy and it still gets MS6?
    (same goes for all the fab-5)
     
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  17. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    I think it's also true for MSDs, what about other popularly collected coins ?

    Maybe not as important when dealing with smaller coins like dimes and nickels ?
     
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