I was at the ANA show in Chitown on Friday, looking for Standing Liberty Quarters. I saw a nice 1920d AU50 in an NGC holder and the dealer thought it should be AU58. He offered me a price reflective of AU58 and I punted away to another table. He wanted $400 for an AU50 whose gray sheet price is $260.
No, maybe a 55 at best. If I tried to sell this to a dealer, they would look at it and give me a price as if it is an AU50.
This is the entire reason for TPG grading. If TPGs didn’t exist, this unscrupulous dealer could over grade his coins, and he would get his asking price because you would not be in a position to challenge his grade. As it is, you know the actual grade is AU50 and that he’s trying to rip you.
Tough call. I paid MS 64 money for a STRONG strike 41-S Walker that NGC has holdered in a 58 slab. I have the coin in hand, and can't find a LICK of rub. Weak reverse strike maybe... but no way a 58. Check my GTG thread for pics. Now- onto the OP's discussion... If the dealer thought it the coin was that strong in the holder, he should have either cracked it and resubmitted or cracked it and sold it as raw as the grade he thinks it is. I don't blame the OP for walking. Just my two cents...
This can a bit tricky as there are undergraded coins and super eye appealing examples. Both will often command a premium above guide. On the other hand, the dealer just as likely could be over-hyping his material (and you're right that in most cases the dealer would look at AU 50 guide or less if you were selling it). In the end, if you don't like the coin at the quoted price, there is no reason to pay it. Move along to the next opportunity.
If he honestly thought it was a 58 he should have resubmitted it for a 58 slab. Sounds scammy to me. In the end though they can technically ask whatever they want to for a coin, who knows, maybe he over paid for it thinking it was a 58, sent it for grading and it came back 50, and it's what he needs to get when he sells to not lose on it. Either way, walking away is always an option.
I've walked away from many a coin I wanted due to the seller wanting a higher price as they thought the coin would grade higher. If it's in a AU-50 slab then that's the grade, not a 55 or a 58. What the seller or dealer thinks it should grade is nonsense. Why didn't they send it in for the upgrade? You did the correct thing, just walk away.
To add more to this discussion, there are slight, questionable differences between an AU58 and an MS62 to 63 for many coins. I think the difference between AU50 to AU58 is pretty obvious for most coins. Also, if I tried to sell this coin to a dealer, he or she would offer AU50 type money, not AU58 . That I would guarantee.
And if a coin is an XF-40 or 45 and it is in an AU-50 slab then that's the grade, not 40 or 45. "What the seller or dealer thinks it should grade is nonsense." Sorry, slab grades are not Gospel or Holy Writ.
I agree but when dealing with a dealer they are. If you're selling to a dealer they will offer you grade money as marked on the slab. If they're selling their going to jack the price up if they feel it would grade higher. While I agree that the grade on the slab is not gospel or written in stone it nevertheless is the grade assigned to that coin. That is the grade that should determine the price not what a dealer things it should be. That's the point I was trying to make.
You are describing a scenario dealing with dreck residing in a overgraded holder. In these situations, it will be very difficult to get full retail value in the market and the dealer/collector may be forced to sell at a lower price more in line with the actual grade. That situation is different than a dealer simply upgrading a slabbed coin 3 grades from AU50 to AU58. It would be easy for him to claim the coin is AU53 and charge that price, but there is a world of difference between an AU50 and an AU58. Nobody is claiming that TPG grades are gospel, but when the grade is 3 grades off and the price difference is over $100, then the dealer needs to pony up and have the coin regraded.
The gray sheetchores the coin was $260. The hobby is in a down market. I would have gone $310 as it was a nice certified AU50