Heritage vs. Great Collections vs. Stacks vs.....

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by GoldFinger1969, Jan 7, 2022.

  1. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Wow, GC is really moving up as they have half the market share of HA. Stacks a strong 3rd given their more exclusive, less-retail focus.

    Two Dogs, NSP, calcol and 2 others like this.
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  3. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    Not surprising. 10% premium at GC vs 20% at the other two. That plus more and more folks feel comfortable bidding and buying over the internet. The most important factor is consignment. When more and more high-end coins get consigned to GC, the other two will have to drop their premium to stay in the game. And that will mean expensive live auctions and printed color catalogs will go the way of minstrel shows.

    Even though it’s called buyer’s premium, it’s the seller that pays it. If I’m going to bid on a coin, my maximum bid will take into account the premium. My bid will reflect the total amount I’m willing to pay. The higher the premium, the lower the bid will be to keep the total cost of acquisition constant.

    Consignors, especially those of high-end coins, know that’s the way most bidders operate. Suppose you are going to consign a coin worth $10k total value. Are you going to consign it to an auction house where you’ll get $8.3k and the house gets $1.7k (20% premium) or an auction house where you’ll get $9.1k and the house gets $0.9k (10% premium)?

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  4. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    I hope not...I don't mind paying a bit extra for HA's fantastic colored catalogs with invaluable information and descriptions (esp. on coins like Saints and Morgans).

    However, I don't think they need an extra 10% on ALL auctions (not just the ones dealing with coins/currency) to pay for it.

    They can also cut back a little. Just have the super-glossy thick books for bigtime shows like FUN and major auctions like Simpson's. Don't need to be putting that stuff out every week or every 2-3 weeks.

    As an aside, if anybody from HA is watching, I wouldn't have minded paying at FUN a nominal fee for the auction catalogs like $5 or something like that. Do that and it adds up over time.

    I didn't know the value of auction catalogs until recently. Lots of newcomers might be worth getting on the auction sites mailing list and then they'll be steady customers.
    Excellent points.
    Joel Turner likes this.
  5. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    This is EXACTLY what I have been trying to express to the auctioneer who hosts my auctions (He refuses to lower his 20-23% buyer's premium because he wants to make more money...but at the same time, I can't sell anything expensive because of the buyer's premium, and I don't want to list a ton of stuff because I'll get hurt by the BP.)

    I just wish I could host/run my own auctions without having to rely on someone else making a bunch of predatory rules or multiple entities taking a huge cut of my sales.
    tibor, calcol and GoldFinger1969 like this.
  6. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    I would be interested to see the stats on world and ancient coins for the same auction houses.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  7. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    12.5% at GC

    If you're consigning a 10k dollar coin you're going to negotiate and get part of the buyers premium. Most people consigning to stacks and heritage are getting part of the buyers premium. A major reason they raised it is for marketing, when its at 20 you can tell someone youll give them 10 percent of it rather then at 17.5 youd be saying 7.5. It makes no difference but psychologically the 10 sounds better.

    The real threat to stacks and heritage for coins is Legend. They've shown the ability to get really strong prices on coins which is what the big boys want on the big coins. The 1793 that just sold at GC had a very weak price likely leaving 100s of thousands on the table.

    Dont get me wrong though I like GC a lot and think it is the best for the average collector as stacks/heritage/legend generally focus on high end type stuff
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
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  8. Joel Turner

    Joel Turner Supporter! Supporter

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the BP on GC was 10% if you pay by check/wire?
    wxcoin, masterswimmer, Mcpix and 2 others like this.
  9. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    It is, but its set at 12.5 and discounted to that for checks/wire with a $5 minimum no matter how you pay
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  10. Petercoin

    Petercoin Active Member

    Hello all and Happy New Year
    The first post of 2022 for me, is a question in regards to an auction house,
    I would like any thoughts on them?
    Are they legit, has anyone used them, and should I proceed with somewhat caution?
    I would be open to your constructive thoughts.
    I have searched Cointalk to find any information with little results.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  11. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    Seeing those numbers makes me more disgruntled that these companies are getting 20% of that money for doing nothing more than providing a sale platform for other people's things. What a racket!

    Wouldn't it be nice if we could just sell collector to collector without having to pay off middle men at every turn :shifty:
  12. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    In fairness to HA, they have a great database that is publicly available...fantastic catalogs....great commentaries.

    It's worth paying 10%. I'm not sure about 20%.
  13. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    I got tired of paying the 2.5% premium for using the CC and also tired of having the USPS lose my checks. So, I set up ECheck with GC and Heritage. Extremely easy to do. The only downside is that there is about a 2-3 day delay for the Echeck to process before they ship the coin.
    Joel Turner and GoldFinger1969 like this.
  14. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    COIN INFORMATION: I'm a bit surprised that GC does not apparently have really in-depth commentaries for their more exclusive, higher-priced items. Heritage's commentaries are outstanding and an invaluable source of research information on particular coins, dates, etc.

    For instance, right now there's an SSCA gold ingot that just crossed $100,000 in bidding and has only 5 or 6 sentences of information. Some super-exclusive 1857-S's have a similar paucity of descriptive information.

    Any reason why this is the case ?
  15. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

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  16. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

    GC is 10%, 12.5% if paying with paypal. However as I understand it, Heritage adds a fee on top of the 20% if paying with paypal.
    So comparing fees, 10% for GC to 20% for Heritage is apples to apples.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  17. John Skelton

    John Skelton Morgan man!

    As a bottom feeder I prefer to avoid the BP at auctions when I can. There are two auctions I go to, one local and one farther away. The local one I attended last weekend and has no BP, while the other one charges 5%, but sells more than just coins. The local one had over 400 coins, and coins sold from $10-900. Unfortunately, I missed out on some bargains hoping to score coins farther down the list. I'm okay, though, because the auctioneer has two more auctions coming up in the next two months.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  18. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Supporter! Supporter

    Much smaller staff = fewer people's salary you have to pay for.

    Caveat Emptor.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  19. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    You would think that maybe the sellers would compile something to help with 6-figure coins.

    You're literally talking about maybe 1% as much information. It's like an Ebay listing almost.
  20. Steve Shupe

    Steve Shupe Active Member

    The auction houses are getting a Sellers premium + a Buyers premium, which can end up being 42%! Having a valuable collection can take some of the sting out of these premiums since they are Negotiable. This is one of the reasons you usually see only higher priced items from the auction houses. I think they like to have the lot value at least $500 or so. Great collections is helping by selling the lower end value coins and is getting that part of the market. Heritage is having their "in the middle of the week auctions" for their lower valued items and these are internet Auctions (not in person) and don't have printed catalogs, so they save that cost.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  21. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector Supporter

    Something that GC doesn't do is variety identification.
    Since I'm concentrating on EAC material, variety is important to me.
    If it's not on the slab I have to work it out.
    I can generally ID the variety from their pictures so it's mostly an annoyance.
    Some of their images are too dark, particularly if the coin is in a white NGC slab.
    Then it's a chore trying to copy the images to my computer so I can use PhotoShop to enlarge and lighten the image and then maybe do the variety identification.
    And sometimes even that doesn't help.

    Recently I've started "working both sides of the street".
    I'm bidding on material at GC and HA.
    I'll try and do a comparison of winning bids.
    GC seems to presently be getting so much interest that I'm wondering if I might be paying more there than on HA.
    I'm certainly often being outbid on GC.
    This sort of comparison will also help me adjust my bidding.

    Come May I'll be at the EAC convention in St. Louis.
    Then I can see how buying from a dealer face-to-face compares.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
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