here's a good read!

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by David Betts, Sep 24, 2023.

  1. David Betts

    David Betts Elle Mae Clampett cruising with Dad

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  3. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    All the more reason to stash stuff in the mattress or consign it with Aunt Mary.......
    Kasia, dwhiz, lardan and 1 other person like this.
  4. Jim Dale

    Jim Dale Well-Known Member

    With all the corruption in law enforcement today, I am not surprised about this "raid" on an innocent individual, or at least I assume he is innocent. My collection is protected. They would never find anything I have. If they even go close my Australian Shepherd would take pieces out of them until my dog can't breath anymore. We live down an unmarked dirt road that even if you had a map, you would never find it.
    Back to the story, I am sure there is more to it than those law enforcement agencies to just walk in and take everything. What do you think?
    David Betts likes this.
  5. David Betts

    David Betts Elle Mae Clampett cruising with Dad

    Id have to agree but would love to see more? It's not like 1933?
    Jim Dale likes this.
  6. Joshua Lemons

    Joshua Lemons Well-Known Member Supporter

    Oh gosh, there have been several instances in my little county of 5,000 people where local police have collected "evidence" and later it was nowhere to be found! Interestingly, our local police force changes everytime a new sheriff is elected.

    My collection is small, less than 200 coins currently. I keep a very detailed inventory describing what I have. It helps that much of the collection is now certified.

    Things like this make me angry because nothing is ever really safe I suppose.
    Jim Dale likes this.
  7. Mad Stax

    Mad Stax Well-Known Member

    "I’m disappointed that I have to sue again in order to get property back that should have been given back to me over two years ago," he said.

    ...he's being too kind with his wording. The coins should have NEVER been taken to begin with. Stories like these are why I'd never leave my valuables in the hands of a 3rd party. I'd rather bury em in the backyard if all else fails.

    Also in regards to the question Jim posed.. there may be more to the story, but the FBI and other similar agencies know that they operate above the law so all it takes is a couple of corrupt agents and something like this can absolutely conceivably occur. My best guess is that it was a couple of criminal agents eyeing an easy pay day.
    Jim Dale likes this.
  8. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I do not do sub-titles I'm not familiar with. Good luck.
  9. CoinMagic

    CoinMagic Member

    This makes for depressing reading. I read a news article back in Fall 2022, or Summer 2022, about the FBI raiding cash from people's deposit boxes across the United States and keeping the cash. A lady lost $40,000 from her deposit box and fought without success to get those funds returned back to her. After learning about the increase in such raids, I am of the mind to keep valuables in a home safe. It's a lot safer this way. Just can't trust the FBI anymore....especially after an article that alleged they stole approximately $300 million dollars worth of coins in the middle of the night in a Pennsylvania forest. All of this is so-called "legalized" robbery. Plain and simple.
    Mad Stax and David Betts like this.
  10. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    I have trouble taking this seriously. It says MSN in the link (is that supposed to make you think it's MSNBC?), but it says "The Western Journal" in the article, which is one giant run on paragraph filled with grammatical errors. Author Warner Todd Huston (if that's even a real person) is a staff writer for Breitbart. In the immortal words of Elaine Benes... fake, fake, fake, fake.
    Heavymetal, Rushmore, Jeffjay and 2 others like this.
  11. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Well-Known Member

  12. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I feel safe using a real bank. I have never known of a real raid on all the boxes. I'm sure that warrants are issued for a box or a persons boxes. Probably more common than we know.
  13. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Oh, "civil forfeiture" is a very real and pernicious thing. You can read about it (and about this Beverly Hills heist) at any news outlet of your choice, on any "side" of the political spectrum; it's proving to be quite the force for bringing "both sides" together in outrage.

    And keeping your valuables at home most certainly does NOT protect you from it.
  14. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    That is certainly true IF YOU ARE THE INTENDED TARGET OF THE INVESTIGATION. Yes, I "shouted" this last because it is pertinent to the discussion.

    The forfeitures that unjustly occurred in the cited case happened at a private SDB business/facility, not a bank or other financial institution. There were one or more customers of this facility that were being targeted by the Feds in a money laundering investigation. When the Feds raided the facility they just caught everybody that had a box there in a wide net without regard to whether or not there was any justification for it and then just sat on those people's honestly acquired assets. Why? Well, just because they could. And, they were suspicious of anyone having hard assets (cash, coins, jewels) "hidden away" because, you know, it just had to be suspicious. Why else would anyone "hide" their assets from the Feds? The Wall Street Journal had some excellent reporting on this case at the time.

    My point is that if you keep your assets at home, you are extremely unlikely to get caught up in a net cast for someone else.

    A few years ago, there was a rash of civil forfeitures along the I-95 corridor. Motorists would be pulled aside and their persons and vehicles searched because they matched a "profile" for drug couriers. If you happened to have cash on you in any amount, it would be confiscated even if there was no valid suspicion of illegal activity. The police departments just said merely having a significant amount of cash on you (anything more than a few hundred dollars) was ipso facto suspicious. Good luck to those innocents trying to get their money back. The police departments had a financial incentive to abuse the citizenry with this legalized theft because the department got to keep and spend a portion of the funds. After a public hue and cry, this practice was halted.
  15. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    There's precious little protecting "you" from becoming a target of an investigation. And when that happens, "they" can seize your home itself, as well as everything in it. Your ability to fight back will depend a great deal on the resources you still have, your friends in high places, and how appealing the judges you face find you.
  16. LakeEffect

    LakeEffect Average Circulated Supporter

    I think I remember this story. The safe deposit box store (not a bank) was allegedly laundering money, which in turn cast implications on all the customers. Very messy, and enough to convince me to avoid such institutions.
  17. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Absolutely. There is always a gap in the financial wherewithal of a citizenry: If you don't have much of anything, you can elicit sympathy and support from the charitable elements of society. If you're rich, you have the resources to defend yourself and you probably don't need the assets in question to feed yourself and keep a roof over your head. But if you're in that broad middle and become the target of the state's police power, you have neither of these means to protect yourself.
    -jeffB likes this.
  18. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    But since the middle is broad, they outrage it at their peril. I wouldn't be surprised to see major civil-forfeiture reform in my own remaining lifetime. It's just so egregious.
  19. CoinMagic

    CoinMagic Member

    @Publius2, "My point is that if you keep your assets at home, you are extremely unlikely to get caught up in a net cast for someone else." Exactly! This is why several posters here have reported having a home safe to keep their valuable coins.

    @-jeffB, what you state here: "There's precious little protecting "you" from becoming a target of an investigation. And when that happens, "they" can seize your home itself, as well as everything in it." I don't think this is 100% accurate. From what I understand, law enforcement can seize property and collect evidence from inside and around your house, but cannot seize your house itself. It is still remains under the house owner's ownership.
  20. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    The site I linked claims that you can lose your home in civil forfeiture. I'm not a lawyer or even lawyer-adjacent, and I fervently hope that I never have to figure it out for myself.
  21. CoinMagic

    CoinMagic Member

    Jeff, that incident took place back in 2014. Like you, I am not an attorney, but I believe that several state laws have promulgated legislation that law enforcement cannot, or no longer can, take one's house through civil forfeitures nowadays. I might be wrong on this count.

    However, one still can lose their house through eminent domain; the difference is that people are reimbursed by the government if they claim their house through eminent domain process.
    -jeffB likes this.
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