Help with Hieroglyphic Symbols?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by JoIke, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. JoIke

    JoIke Member

    Hi everyone,

    Sorry to bother you all with this non-coin item, but was hoping for a little help if possible?

    I purchased this silver piece not knowing exactly what the designs were but thought them to be very interesting. After looking at the item for some time, I believe they're Hieroglyphics(?). So far, I've only managed to ID the symbol at far right (red arrow) to be a 'Twisted Flax Wick'.........I think! The other at far left appears to be a seated figure of some kind. The piece is quite rubbed/worn and I'm not able to ID the other designs....can you all please help?

    Thank you all in advance for your time and thoughts.

    Jo

    UKNOWN SILVER OBJECT 001.jpg
     
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  3. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter I dig ancient coins...

    P-t-nb-hm-w I think. (Petnebhemew) possibly the name of a priest of Ra.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
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  4. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths Supporter

    hm-ka= Ka servent or hm-ka-Ra ,as you say Ka priest of Ra.
     
  5. KIWITI

    KIWITI Well-Known Member

    Just curious, how much does it weight/measures?
     
  6. JoIke

    JoIke Member

    I apologies for such a late repose. Internet has been down due to the storms in my area. I tried researching the info you so kindly provided, but came up blank. I do thank you so much for taking the timeout to help as I'm much closer to knowing what I have than I did prior to posting here. Thanks again!
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
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  7. JoIke

    JoIke Member

    The piece (a large silver ring) weighs roughly 40 grams and the cartouche face alone measures approx: 1 x 1/2 inch.
     
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  8. JoIke

    JoIke Member

    @ancient coin hunter

    Thanks again for taking the timeout to help with my inquiry. Is it possible for you to please help me one last time? I'd very much appreciate it.

    I was wondering or hoping if you can please give me a breakdown of the imagery within the cartouche? I'm sure I'm not wording that correctly........but examples of what's within such as: twisted flax wick, sun-disc, etc. etc.. Any thoughts on what 'Reign' the Priest/Cartouche might fall under?

    If you're unable to help, I totally understand and thank you so much for your time.

    Kind regards
     
  9. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter I dig ancient coins...

    I would say/surmise something like this:

    square basket = p
    twisted flax wick = h
    loaf of bread = t
    round basket = nb
    club = hm
    upraised arms = ka
    (I am not sure on this hieroglyph, as it is poorly rendered)
    god figure = honorific
    sun disk = ra

    Not sure of the dynasty or reign of pharaoh. I would guess late period to ptolemaic, when silver came into use. Keep in mind that Egyptian letters had no vowels, so scholars used Coptic to re-create vowel sounds between the hieroglyphs. Hieroglyphs also can be both phonetic sounds and/or complete words depending on the situation.
     
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  10. JoIke

    JoIke Member

    Awesome! Most appreciated! Thank you so much.
     
  11. JoIke

    JoIke Member

    @ancient coin hunter & @NewStyleKing

    Once again I just wanted to thank you both for your help with my inquiry. For the past month or so, I've been playing around with the breakdown of the hieroglyphics you both submitted and below is what I've come up with. Now, I'm sure I'm wrong(?) about this given I know next to nothing regarding the subject, but here goes nothing...

    ARTIFACT003.jpg

    I "think" the hieroglyphics say something or have something to do with the God, Ptah? In my "research", the 3 hieroglyphics (Pth) at right seem to always be associated with him...

    jygfuyguygyuf01-001.jpg
    IMG_7423-001.jpg
    PTH007-001.jpg

    The round basket hieroglyph just below the above mentioned 3 appears to translate as: nb = neb = (Lord)?

    The God figure hieroglyph at left I think I've ID'ed as that of the Goddess, Maat given the shape, headdress and ostrich feather atop...

    IMG_7436-001.jpg

    Putting all this (Pth-nb-Maat) together, I found it means: Ptah Lord of Truth.

    I'm still trying to figure out how the others (Hm, Ka, Ra) play into all the above. Hm-Ka I seen can also mean: Soul Priest.

    Anyway, this is what I've been able to come up with given the info you both so kindly provided. What, if anything is correct is another story. I just wanted to show you all that the info provided has not been given in vain and I'm trying to determine the who, what, where, when, why and how of my object.
     
  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Ok, I do NOT know Heiroglyphics, and am a very causal collector of Scarabs. I like to focus on Royal Scarabs.

    I put a few of your terms into my database, and this came up. I do not think they correspond, rather it was fun seeing if I had anything resembling your research (well done). But, I am here to just confuse the issues.... :)

    I understand that this one is considered a Heart Scarab.

    upload_2020-9-7_10-50-30.png
    Egyptian Amenhotep III Scarab
    New Kingdom, Reign of Amenhotep III, 1390-1352 BC.
    Obv: A stone scarab with detailed carapace and legs;
    Rev: to the underside a cartouche with Neb Maat Ra, the prenomen of Amenhotep III, and series of hieroglyphs; pierced through body for suspension.
    41.37 grams, 45mm (1 3/4")
    Ex Gustave Mustaki collection, some of the Mustaki collection is in the British Museum,
    Comments: the collection was exported to the UK with export permits in 1948.
    Fine condition.
    Ex: Timeline Auctions
     
  13. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths Supporter

    Always the problem with ancient Egyptian stuff. Full of abbreviations, mistakes, what relates to what. Yes, I see Ptah, Maat, Ra, Ka, servant, Lord.. I think a name of someone who was a soul servant of .....
    or Lord Hm Ka..... Some times they used one Nb when two were really needed! So you have Lord of Truth or a name Maat Ptah Ra. Nb also can mean all/every. Well that's me done. I think a good museum will be the Lord of Truth for this! Keep me posted intrigued!
     
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  14. JoIke

    JoIke Member

    @Alegandron thank you and what a great piece you have there.

    @NewStyleKing I/we got it!!!

    The name on my ring (I'm about 98% sure) is that of: Prince Ramesses Maatptah, son of Ramesses II, 19th Dynasty.

    And guess what? he was also a priest!

    I think we nailed it!

    I'll keep you and all who are interested updated once I'm able to get this piece in the hands of an expert in the filed who can confirm the research/findings.

    To be continued...
     
  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Here is his Father

    RAMESSES II

    [​IMG]
    Egypt Scarab RAMESSES II cartouche 19th Dyn 1292-1189 BCE winged uraeus cobra 4.1g 19mm Gustave Mustaki coll acquired fr Egypt in 1948


    Little more history on your guy’s father:

    These were the guys that Rameses II fought at the Battle of Kadesh... Rameses told everyone HE won, as the Hittites stated THEY won. Lotta dumb mistakes from Rameses II side, but I understand it was really a draw.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kadesh

    HITTITES
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Hittite Steatite Head of a Man Amulet 2nd Millennium BCE 15 x 20 mm Intact front-Side
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites
     
  16. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    And this was his Grandfather:

    Egypt

    SETI I
    [​IMG]
    Egypt SCARAB Seti I ca ruled 1291-1278 BCE 19th Dynasty


    And you might have known his Dad and Grandad from Hollywood:

    You might know them as these guys...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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