Help with authentication

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Mike Roo, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

    I tell people that the best practice against counterfeits is to look at thousands of genuine coins of all types to get a feel for how genuine coins are supposed to look. That makes counterfeits stand out.

    The next best thing is to look at hundreds of counterfeits and understand why they should stand out.
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  3. Packrat

    Packrat Active Member

    Got a local pawn shop with a spectrometer? They can scan and you can photo the results.
    coinsareus10 likes this.
  4. COCollector

    COCollector Well-Known Member

    Trade Dollar weight is 27.22 grams, give or take for tolerances and wear.

    Maybe someone will chime in with acceptable weight deviations.

    If you don't have one, there are lots of good digital scales for under $20.
  5. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    Thank you that is helpful, I have learned enough about this coin that I could have known from the posted pictures, I have just started collecting and truth be told I tend to do more checking upon arrival because pictures can't alway capture... especially when trying to gauge luster, and small imperfections, and so many are using that "gold" light to photograph you can't always go on the picture for true color, I just know I have sent a lot of coins back due to the fact they did not appear to be the same as the description. I would never have been brave enough to learn on the fly back when ebay did not offer a guarantee.
  6. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    I would bet this one is silver it weighs very close and is not magnetic, I would do that if I were not already sure this is counterfeit, but thank you I will keep that in mind because I want to find a real one of these.
  7. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    It is close in weight but too much under for the condition, but after having it posted here for a day I am certain it is fake.
  8. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    from what I have found no mint used type I reverse in 77
  9. frankjg

    frankjg Well-Known Member

    If you are sending a lot of coins back, you need to take a step back from buying and do some reading and research on a particular series you want to collect. Always beware of eBay, check the country where it's being shipped from, and if it seems too good to be true - it is!

    I totally understand wanting to buy coins and get them in hand to admire, but you really need to arm yourself with knowledge first, especially in this hobby.

    Best of luck and welcome to CT.
  10. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    The op trade dollar that was posted is 100% fake!
  11. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    thank you, this is the first coin that I believed to be counterfeit but I have sent back coins mainly because the pictures did not tell the whole story... lots of sellers are now scanning their coins which gives you a clear view of scratches etc, but the color and luster can't be determined, I have yet to see any picture that tells me if a coin has the double cartwheel. Polished coins can sometimes be difficult to tell. I have alway bought from inside USA, and with sellers who have good feedback. But when I get a coin and don't like it I have the choice to return it. I do not have any good coin dealers in my area so I consider part of this the shopping process. I am sure I could see a picture of a coin, go to a shop and not be impressed with it first hand. I started by just buying gold and silver and that is relatively easy, but coins are harder, and even though I research I still find I need help. Places like this are invaluable.
  12. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Do yourself and your wallet a favor and stick with slabbed trade dollars. This is an often-counterfeited issue and some of them aren’t as obvious as yours.
  13. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Do yourself a favor buy the book before the coin!
    knowlege is your friend,read ,research, before you buy any coin.
    I venture to say most members here who have been collecting over the years, have 20 or more reference books,or web sites book marked.
    Coin collecting there's a lot more than putting coins in folders.
    But.... the rewards ,the knowlege , are worth the time spent learning so much about a medal disc.
  14. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    I will go with a slabbed coin next time, but I read on another web coin site that they have come across 2 Trade dollars in fake PCGS slabs, I also understand that the Chinese are using laser copied planchets and 90% silver in some of their fakes, it almost comes time that technology will get us to a place that they are basically making new morgans, peace, and trade dollars.
  15. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Well Mike this is true......And ill go a step further most of us who been collecting for decades can be or possible have been fooled...I have on 2 gold coins ....yes they were gold coins, no they were not real.
    But one must be able to knows when to walk or run...... and a slabed coin isn't a
    free pass against fraud.
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  16. thomas mozzillo

    thomas mozzillo Well-Known Member

    If you bought this on eBay you can return it even if the seller has a "No Return" policy. If it's past the time where you can return it, you can open up a case with PayPal. This topic has been covered many times on Coin Talk.
    Also, use Google for additional resources.
    Paddy54 likes this.
  17. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    thank you everyone with the help
  18. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Supporter! Supporter

    If you have to check from photos, use a computer with a big external monitor.

    Bring up the photo of the questionable object and adjust the browser to fill half the screen.

    Go out to PCGS Coin Facts and bring up a pic of a known good one, also half screen and zoomed in/out so it's close to the same size.

    Then play the old "spot the differences" game.

    Some things are ok, such as mint marks - they were hand punched into the die so they move around a bit - but the STYLE of the punch doesn't change (unless it's a known variety like the plain/fancy 5 or the open/closed 3).
  19. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    thank you, that will make a difference from now on, so much more helpful than just it is 100% a fake, I pretty much knew that I needed to know why, or how not to have it happen in the future, your post was helpful.
  20. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Supporter! Supporter

  21. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Keep in mind that this may only work with coins after 1836. Before that date most individual dies were made by hand and coins from two different dies usually WILL have differences.
    Mike Roo and jhinton like this.
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