Help with authentication

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Mike Roo, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    Not sure if this is the right forum but I need help to see if this coin is "real" a newbie here.....
     

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  3. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Screams fake to me. Here is a Chinese fake that looks almost identical to yours.
    upload_2019-8-19_13-45-6.jpeg
     
  4. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    do you have the reverse pic?
     
  5. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    Do you own this coin or considering purchasing? It's not genuine if you are considering purchasing the coin.
     
  6. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Google.
    Type in 1877 CC Trade dollar and do an image search. You can see pictures of a real one as well as multiple fakes from places like aliexpress.
     
    eddiespin likes this.
  7. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    I just bought it but can get a refund if I can show it is counterfeit
     
  8. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Oof. You should never have touched this thing with a 10ft pole.
     
  9. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    I did that, lots of red flags mainly the position of the arrow head above the 2 in grain, but I thought I would ask those who know more than me since I am all but sure I have to have ebay step in
     
  10. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    This is genuine. Granted it is an uncirculated piece. But note the details in the face and the flow of her gown. Look at the overall cartoonish look of your piece as compared to the real thing.

    [​IMG]
     
    Spark1951, C-B-D and furryfrog02 like this.
  11. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    Am I right to note that all trade dollars in the year 1877 and 78 despite mint the arrow in the back should be over the 2 in grain not between the 2 and 0 as mine is?
     
  12. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    Is there any other specifics I can use to put in my request to ebay?
     
  13. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    This thing is FROM CHINA. It did not GO TO CHINA initially.

    It's a screaming counterfeit. It is what you might call "an unreasonable facsimile." The design resembles the real thing, but it’s reproduced in an amateurish style.
     
    Mainebill and Randy Abercrombie like this.
  14. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    can you give me one or two detail that I can use. I called the secret service and they are not even sure they have a person in the office near me that checks coins,,, I may need to point out things to them.... thanks
     
  15. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I don't have an 1875-CC Trade Dollar, but here is an 1877-S that was made from the same design tools.

    1877-S Trade Dollar O.jpg 1877-S Trade Dollar R.jpg

    Here is the counterfeit in the OP. Compare the artwork and the detiles (teeth around the rim) on the reverse. It does not match up.

    1875-CC Trade O bad.jpg 1875-CC Trade R bad.jpg 1875-CC Trade Den bad.jpg

    Many years ago, I had a friend who tried to use the Secret Service to go over a coin he thought was counterfeit. It took them many months. Maybe you will fare better.
     
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  16. jhinton

    jhinton Well-Known Member

  17. Mainebill

    Mainebill Wild Bill

    Not real no chance
     
  18. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

    It is most certainly a fake. It looks steel, not silver
     
  19. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Nope not from the same hubs. Your 77 S is from the type II hubs, the OP coin is from the type I hubs (actually it is a hybrid the rev is type i but the obv had type ii ribbon and type i hand.) I do not believe any mint used the type i rev in 1877.
     
  20. Mike Roo

    Mike Roo New Member

    it is not steel not magnetic and weighs within an ounce of correct. But too light for the condition another red flag, I agree it is type I on the reverse and no mint did that in 77. I will see if that is enough for ebay... that and the arrow is in the wrong place for a 77 on the reverse.
     
  21. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I was referring more to design features, like the folds in Ms. Liberty’s gown and the details on the Eagle. The artwork on the counterfeit is not the same and not executed with same level of expertise. That was my point.

    One of the ways to learn to spot counterfeits is to REALLY get the official design imprinted in your mind. Then, when you see a piece that is off in a subtle way, you can react to it. Many collectors don’t have that information in their minds. They concentrate too much only on the date, mint mark and general appearance.

    Counterfeit detector books spend a lot of time showing signs of specific counterfeits. That’s good because it gives you information about the general features to note that you might see on bad pieces. The trouble is no one can remember all of that stuff, and new counterfeits are appearing every day. A fundamental knowledge of what the real thing looks like is the key skill.
     
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