Help with a Hadrian denarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Clonecommanderavgvsvs, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. Clonecommanderavgvsvs

    Clonecommanderavgvsvs Active Member

    Good evening everyone, I’m wondering if any one can help me with the deity on the back of my Hadrian denarius. I’ve looked through a bunch of sources but this one is alluding me. Many thanks and god bless. 54AEE245-BFC1-4F7A-9A6D-5C8E7C7AEB2D.jpeg 43A90E66-8074-48AA-B0FC-A3107349893C.jpeg
     
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    The coin is not Hadrian but an early Antoninus Pius where he uses Hadrian's name as part of the obverse legend. T AEL HADR ANTONINVS
     
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  4. Clonecommanderavgvsvs

    Clonecommanderavgvsvs Active Member

    Really? Do you know the deity on the back?
     
  5. Clonecommanderavgvsvs

    Clonecommanderavgvsvs Active Member

    Oh and thank you btw
     
  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I believe the reverse is Fortuna (not 100%), but I believe I see a rudder to her left. Can you make out the reverse legend or even part of it? I can't from the image.

    And yes, the more you look at Roman coins, the more you will become familiar with the portraits. Hadrian's portrait is very distinct as is Antonius Pius.

    Hadrian Hadrian 4.jpg
    vs
    Antonius Pius
    Antonius Pius 3.jpg
     
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  7. Clonecommanderavgvsvs

    Clonecommanderavgvsvs Active Member

    Thank you, I can make some of the letter out but I can’t really read it. I bought this at a show for $20 as a Hadrian long ago, and btw I have a Roman republic quinarius on the way
     
  8. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    If you can write down what you think you see of the legend, I and others here can possibly help id the coin for certain
     
  9. Clonecommanderavgvsvs

    Clonecommanderavgvsvs Active Member

  10. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Do you think it might read something like "TR POT XIIII COS IIII"? Better yet, see if you can take a clear image of the reverse straight on rather than from the side.
     
  11. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

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  12. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    @TIF.....Good eyes!
     
  13. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    I'm not very good with Imperials and don't have RIC so for this coin's identification I used @Suarez's ERIC, available on Forum Ancient Coins. Here's how I did it, in case my method helps newcomers who may want to learn a strategy for identifying Roman Imperial coins :).

    We knew the obverse was Antoninus Pius based solely on the recognizable portrait and confirmed by the legend. I went to the ERIC page for Antoninus Pius.

    To narrow down who the reverse might represent, I did a browser "find on page" search for "rudder" (being reasonably certain the thing her right hand is resting on is a rudder), and within those hits looked for rudders held by someone standing right.

    The resulting possibilities were Annona, Fortuna, Honos, Salus, and Tranquilitas.

    I don't really understand the rest of ERIC's utility since it doesn't appear to be a comprehensive list of combinations.

    Salus was quickly ruled out because the OP coin does not have an altar and snake.

    I went to ACsearch and searched "Antoninus Pius denarius ______ standing", filling in the blank first with Annona, then Fortuna, etc. The posture of the reverse figure is distinctive, with her right elbow akimbo. A quick scan of the hits for Annona, Fortuna, and Honos quickly ruled them out. Tranquilitas does have that distinctive pose. Winner :).

    If @Clonecommanderavgvsvs can discern some of the reverse legend in hand he may be able to pin down the exact attribution.

    Is the Antoninus Pius volume of RIC available online?
     
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  14. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing Supporter

    Nice work, @TIF and an obviously very helpful debrief of you process!
    For RIC, I use the OCRE on numismatics.org.

    http://numismatics.org/ocre/results?q=deity_facet:"Tranquilitas"+AND+denomination_facet:"Denarius"+AND+material_facet:"Silver"+AND+portrait_facet:"Antoninus+Pius"+AND+fulltext:TRANQ+AND+fulltext:laureate
    It appears to come in 2 reverse legend flavors (as your post mentions: 202, 218). You can see my filter items at the top. I feel like I can tell which one it is even using the OP reverse image.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  15. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    Thanks, @Justin Lee! I'll have to use OCRE more often.

    Based on your search, it looks like the OP's coin is RIC 202b. Although we can't discern the individual letters of the reverse legend, it looks like the portion prior to COS is longer than 7 characters and you can see some, so that would make it TR POT XIIII COS IIII (RIC 202b) rather than TR POT XV COS IIII (RIC 218).

    Teamwork :D
     
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  16. Clonecommanderavgvsvs

    Clonecommanderavgvsvs Active Member

    Thanks a lot guys!!!
     
  17. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    Question for the Imperialists among us...

    How and why was the figure on this coin's reverse determined to be Tranquillitas? Female, rudder, grain ears... why not Annona? Tyche? Both of those are also depicted with the attributes shown on this coin.
     
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  18. Multatuli

    Multatuli Homo numismaticus Supporter

    Unbearded Hadrian, Bing?
     
  19. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I erred on this thinking the HADR placed the coin early. This was from a series in 151-152. I should have realized the obverse legend included AVG which the early ones did not and should have seen the trace of the TRANQ in exergue separating the coin from others with different words there. I had a bad day.
    In this case the ID is based on the TRANQ in exergue. Without that, you might argue for other women with rudders but I tend to accept labels when provided unless the label is applied to several different figures like the Septimius Severus Fortuna Reduci legend coins with Fortuna, Pax and Hilaritas versions whe I would label it 'Fortuna as Pax' etc..

    I hope not because I do not support illegal copies of copyrighted books. You know I find ERIC hard to use and useless to me. I would recommend picking up Seaby's Roman Silver Coins if you see it cheap. The problem with these is there are old books with line drawings that predate some standard references (like Crawford) so you need to check to see if the ones you find have references to books you want. None will reference the new RIC 1 and 2 editions. Even the oldest ones will help you figure out what exists to some degree but the books will not thrill those interested in up to date catalog numbers. The older I get, the less I care about numbers and the less inclined I am to buy books with new numbering systems.
     
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  20. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    :eek::oops::sorry::banghead:

    I can't even blame lack of coffee for this. I'll try to blame the lack of visible TRANQ on the OP coin, even though it was in the attribution I typed.
     
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  21. thejewk

    thejewk Well-Known Member

    Interestingly, the only coin I am familiar with with Annona on the reverse from Antoninus Pius also includes Annona in exergue. It seems the die engravers felt the same way as you @TIF
     
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