help to id old Russian silver coins

Hi, I picked up a couple coins at a local estate auction. I am not confident that they were attributed correctly in the listing, which is why I got them.

I'd like help to confirm what I think they are, so if you all could just take a minute and offer an opinion I'd really appreciate it.

I'll let the pictures do the talking.
Hoping to hear from @Siberian Man as our resident authority on Russian coinage or the very knowledgeable @scottishmoney, as well as anyone else willing to take a stab at it.


Thanks everyone!

 

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First one looks to be 20 Kopecks 1764, Novodel coinage from Siberia.
KM # N24

 

2nd one looks like 10 Kopeks (Grivennik) KM121 but there are differences between yours and the one in Krause.
The dates in Krause are 1704, 1706 and 1709, I don`t know the date of yours.

 

How much you payed for this couple?

 

These coins are looks like fakes for me.

 

They were listed as 10 kopek 1704 and 20 kopek 1764. I paid more than I should have if fakes.

 

I was bid up to a little over $70 for the pair. The estate also featured wwii memorabilia including guns and nazi party medals/ribbons. If they are fake I don't think the seller was aware.

 

I just picked them up, sitting in a hospital waiting room now as my dad has surgery. Will try to get better photos with my real camera later.

 

A silver test using a rare earth magnet and weighing them might help.
I do not have the correct weights that they should be but someone will know.

 

I'm heading into a shop near the hospital to see what they think...

 

Do you know the correct weight of an authentic example of each? What is the purity of the silver? Diameter?

 

I found this site: http://www.m-dv.ru/catalog/id,6165/prohod.html
I need help with that one though. It might provide the details but i can't read it.

 

The first is definetley fake (for example the shape of the 6 in date is wrong).
And the second looks fake too.

 

man, i don't like the looks of the first coin....as far as a potential fake.

here are the stats from NGC..

Composition: Silver

Fineness: 0.7500

Weight: 4.7700g


look at the style of these..

http://monety-rossii.com/the-siberian-coinage-1763-1781/


i hope i'm wrong. if it's real, its a very valuable coin!

 

Well, this shop deals in US coins only. He did refer me to another shop nearby who specializes in world coins. I will have to check that one out.

I did some cherry picking while I was there

 

The reeding looks like it was put on by hand , not by machine . Though Siberian Man knows his coins .

 

The second shop owner thinks they are counterfeits. Bummer, prospects don't look good. Great first buy of the year.

This guy wouldn't let me pick, so I bought all 2+ lbs of random world coins he had to pick through, and ten Mercs.

 

I would try and ask for a refund. They are both not genuine.

 

These so-called "novodels" have been all over ebay lately. A novodel is an official restrike. Pieces like the ones posted here are unofficial copies and/or fantasy designs which are just for novelty purposes and worth novelty money.

 

Price for genuine coins: 10 kopeks 1704 - $ 500 for XF; 20 kopeks 1764 (Novodel) - $ 3520. Sorry, but it is a modern fakes.