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Message:: [QUOTE="Insider, post: 8147651, member: 24314"]GoldFinger1969, posted: "1 More Thing On The "20,000" Omegas...it's possible that the only ones that were able to be sold were the ones made with the stolen die.  They may have made hundreds or thousands of others but maybe the quality wasn't up to the originals. In that case, with the gold price rising over time, you would just get your money back by melting the bad countefeit back into a gold bar or whatever or just getting spot gold for it from a jeweler or dealer who won't pay the MCMVII HR price since it's a fake. So maybe thousands of fakes WERE made -- they just never found their way into the dealer and coin community and whoever fronted the money got their money back plus or minus the change in the gold price once the coins weren't sellable to the dealers." <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie92" alt=":stop:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />  You are adding to the myths.  I told you already, the entire figure of 20K was made up for the TV program!  Actually they made 50K and melted the ones that didn't turn out "perfect."  SEE HOW IT WORKS?   Now in a few years, I'll be quoted by some dummy <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie30" alt=":bucktooth:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> and 50K will become the new number of counterfeits made made.<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie85" alt=":smuggrin:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> GoldFinger1969, posted: "Today you wonder if the TPGs would have spent enough time -- even on a High Relief -- that they would catch something like that.   I've always been told that the experts and TPGs can sniff out a fake within seconds because they've looked at thousands ** but clearly this coin was tough to nail down in the usual 20-40 seconds."      ** Most folks who have looked at thousands of genuine coins are still pretty good.  That's the key.  When you see something that just does not look "right" (a gut reaction from an experienced numismatist), the coin MAY not be genuine. NOTE: There was ONLY ONE coin authentication service in the USA from 1971-1975.  Things were different back then: 1. The volume of coins was small.  As I remember, we ALWAYS had less than 200 coins in process.  2. There were no time limits or tiers of service.  We could take as much time as was necessary to make a determination of authenticity. 3. We used stereo microscopes ON EVERY COIN!  That's how we learned what genuine coins should look like AT THE MICROSCOPIC LEVEL!  It has taken over forty-five years for the technology used to produce counterfeits to catch up to that type of critical examination. Today, coin's like Trade dollars that were previously authenticated in several seconds now take as much time as ___ minutes under high power magnification to authenticate.  The days of the hand lens ended long, long ago.  "What are "tool marks" --- I never understood them.  If they are the left-over marks of tools on the dies, why would someone trying to make a fake do that unless to cover up a bigger flaw?" They are raised marks on a coin.  Anything done into the surface of a die will be raised on the coin. [/QUOTE]

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