Hey all, Been a while since I've posted here, but I just got an email I thought might interest some of you...
Seriously millions and millions of coins were minted during thr Roman empire and they are still found buried all over eastern and western europe and Italy wants to claim all of them. They sound like spain.
I think it is intended to stop the wholesale export of Roman artifacts via the blackmarket to, well, lets face it, where the money is, USA. A lot of countries have such laws now or are becomng self aware in these regards. Even Poland has such laws on objects of coins of a certain age. I don't know, but remember the famous graverobber - Howard Carter...well, that's the thing they are trying to avoid. I guess they are saying that Italian heratage is not for sale at any price. With such ancient countries and cultures in Europe, there is different mentality.
With respect to King Tut and Howard Carter, I don't think King Tut's artifacts, during his time, were spread all over North Africa, Middle East, Asia, and Europe. Roman coins are different - they were spread to those places during Roman times.
In another topic about the very same issue, Ardatirion quoted from an e-mail: "I should also note this rule would only discriminate against American collectors. Collectors in the EU-- including in Italy itself-- do not have to make such a showing when they purchase ancient coins." http://www.cointalk.com/t102425/ Well, the Unidroit Convention (which country-specific regulations, bilateral agreements, etc. are based on) is fairly general, so it makes sense to specify some issues in, for example this US-Italian MoU. But it is the very nature of a bilateral agreement that it does not directly affect any country except these two. If you want to speak out against the MoU, by all means do so. I have no idea either how one could differentiate between ancient Roman coins from what today is Italy, and ancient Roman coins from other countries. And it is also difficult to draw a precise line between mass coins and pieces that are culturally more "relevant" ... Christian
I definitely agree with the argument, but here's the opposing view. Any opinions?: http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/ guy
Barford and the ACCG, that sure is a sore subject. In my opinion both are way too shrill when voicing their opinions. I remember a previous ACCG campaign which (ab)used a debate here in Germany, about seizures of certain coins, to ... well I don't know what they aimed at. http://coinarchaeology.blogspot.com/2009/02/police-action-with-antiquities-and.html It is quite obvious that all those brown-shirts-and-swastikas "arguments" were aimed at an US audience - present or future ACCG members maybe - and did not really have anything to do with the discussion and the reality over here. Now Paul Barford represents the other extreme in my view - collectors are evil. (Well, maybe not evil but a potential risk.) It is certainly true that from time to time rare ancient objects, from Italy for example, "make it" to other countries and end up in private collections under dubious circumstances. And it does make sense to try and stop such trafficking. But, and this is where I certainly disagree with Barford, it should be possible to draw a sensible line here. As I wrote before, who is going to "prove" that a certain ancient Roman coin is from country X and not from Y? Would it be up to the collector or dealer to supply a certificate? What about coins that already are in our collections? (Here we are talking about ancients, which I do not collect, but theoretically every piece older than 100 years could be affected.) Also, while some ancient coins are so rare that it makes sense in my view to treat them just like you would treat other rare archeological objects, there are many many ancients which simply are "mass" pieces. Simply saying that each of these pieces requires an export permit, certificate, etc. would be beyond the line. Christian
I missed this thread, and copied the Wizard Fax helper onto a new thread. Sorry for the redundancy. (http://www.cointalk.com/t102807/) - I goofed and put the topic under chat: Italian Imports:News from ANA BTW, I learned even more by sending the FAX letter.
It needs stopping or at least some sort of clause in the act that exempts things that are not national treasures, I can understand if the coin is one of a kind etc
I concur about the clause idea. One worry that I have is who would determine whether a specimen is indeed a national treasure, and what is not? I hope it would not be some "apparatchik" bureaucrat sitting behind a desk with a rubber stamp. Also, as in some scenarios cited in this thread, what about those specimens which exist in present collections outside of Italy, or those that are new discoveries that originate outside the political boundaries of present day Italy? Again, I hope it would not be some "apparatchik" bureaucrat! And Jiminy Crickets, Lord help us if U.S. Customs gets involved and are asked to make judgment calls about such matters!
