Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Help! Probus expert needed!
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="maridvnvm, post: 4693011, member: 31620"]Let me start by answering a couple of your questions.</p><ul> <li>What's the difference between the coins of Period I and Period II? If it's a matter of bust style, it looks more like <a href="http://numismatics.org/collection/1944.100.33095" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://numismatics.org/collection/1944.100.33095" rel="nofollow">this one</a> attributed to RIC 60, Bastien 195 by the ANS.</li> </ul><p>The ANS coin has bee misattributed and is in fact RIC 17.</p><p>There is a very distinct change in the bust style between the two. Bastien placed RIC 17 in Emission 4</p><p><br /></p><p>Here are a couple of my emissions 4 coins for comparison (including an Abundantia)</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132ep_img.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><img src="https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132xb_img.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><img src="https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132ei_img.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><br /></p><p>Hopefully you are able to see that the busts are very similar in style. The basic "tell" with these is the size of the cuirass on the chest. It is very thin during this emission.</p><p><br /></p><p>Here are some emission 6 coins (to which Bastien places RIC 60) for comparison. I don't have a RIC 60 but do have a RIC 59 to include.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132ea_img.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><img src="https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132am_img.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><img src="https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132ad_img.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><br /></p><p>I have deliberately chosen two other reverse types which span emission 4 and 6 for wider comparison. The busts are slightly narrower on the later emission but there is a clear cuirass on the chest, which is much larger than on the earlier issue.</p><p><br /></p><p>Does this help?</p><ul> <li>What's the difference between Bastien 195 and 196?</li> </ul><p>With many obverse legends at Lugdunum we find dots placed within the legend. Bastien gives examples with dots a different catalog entry to those without. Note - we do not know if there is any significance to the dots. It should also be noted that the presence or lack of dots is not always clear on poorer examples.</p><p><br /></p><p>Bastien 195 has obverse legend "IMP C PROBVS . P . F . AVG" - Bastien cites 54 examples with dots</p><p>Bastien 196 has obverse legend "IMP C PROBVS P F AVG"- Bastien cites 1 example without dots</p><p><br /></p><p>I don't have any that are definately 196. I have one that I have as questionable but is it that I simply cannot make out the dots?</p><ul> <li>Sear dates the coin to AD 279-89; Bastien (?) to AD 277. When was this coin struck?</li> </ul><p>Bastien dating (which is based on a detailed die analysis and in the currently accepted chronology) places <b>Emission 4 to Mid to Late A.D.277</b> and <b>Emission 6 to A.D. 278 to A.D. 279</b></p><p><br /></p><p>Cohen didn't differentiate by issue ans thus a match of legends on both sides will result in the same Cohen number. Similarly Cohen didn't differentiate by Officina mark.</p><p><br /></p><p>Now I will place a coin in from of you and ask you to attribute it to Period I (Emission 4) or Period 2 (Emission 6). I know that the coin isn't perfect but I am hoping that you can use the information above to place it in the correct emission.</p><p><br /></p><p>I will state that based on what I have said above that it is Cohen 1. I will provide the RIC and Bastien numbers when you have had a go.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132yi_img.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="maridvnvm, post: 4693011, member: 31620"]Let me start by answering a couple of your questions. [LIST] [*]What's the difference between the coins of Period I and Period II? If it's a matter of bust style, it looks more like [URL='http://numismatics.org/collection/1944.100.33095']this one[/URL] attributed to RIC 60, Bastien 195 by the ANS. [/LIST] The ANS coin has bee misattributed and is in fact RIC 17. There is a very distinct change in the bust style between the two. Bastien placed RIC 17 in Emission 4 Here are a couple of my emissions 4 coins for comparison (including an Abundantia) [IMG]https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132ep_img.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132xb_img.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132ei_img.jpg[/IMG] Hopefully you are able to see that the busts are very similar in style. The basic "tell" with these is the size of the cuirass on the chest. It is very thin during this emission. Here are some emission 6 coins (to which Bastien places RIC 60) for comparison. I don't have a RIC 60 but do have a RIC 59 to include. [IMG]https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132ea_img.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132am_img.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132ad_img.jpg[/IMG] I have deliberately chosen two other reverse types which span emission 4 and 6 for wider comparison. The busts are slightly narrower on the later emission but there is a clear cuirass on the chest, which is much larger than on the earlier issue. Does this help? [LIST] [*]What's the difference between Bastien 195 and 196? [/LIST] With many obverse legends at Lugdunum we find dots placed within the legend. Bastien gives examples with dots a different catalog entry to those without. Note - we do not know if there is any significance to the dots. It should also be noted that the presence or lack of dots is not always clear on poorer examples. Bastien 195 has obverse legend "IMP C PROBVS . P . F . AVG" - Bastien cites 54 examples with dots Bastien 196 has obverse legend "IMP C PROBVS P F AVG"- Bastien cites 1 example without dots I don't have any that are definately 196. I have one that I have as questionable but is it that I simply cannot make out the dots? [LIST] [*]Sear dates the coin to AD 279-89; Bastien (?) to AD 277. When was this coin struck? [/LIST] Bastien dating (which is based on a detailed die analysis and in the currently accepted chronology) places [B]Emission 4 to Mid to Late A.D.277[/B] and [B]Emission 6 to A.D. 278 to A.D. 279[/B] Cohen didn't differentiate by issue ans thus a match of legends on both sides will result in the same Cohen number. Similarly Cohen didn't differentiate by Officina mark. Now I will place a coin in from of you and ask you to attribute it to Period I (Emission 4) or Period 2 (Emission 6). I know that the coin isn't perfect but I am hoping that you can use the information above to place it in the correct emission. I will state that based on what I have said above that it is Cohen 1. I will provide the RIC and Bastien numbers when you have had a go. [IMG]https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10618/RI_132yi_img.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Help! Probus expert needed!
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...