Help confirm attribution: Great Seljuq gold coin

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Teddydogno1, Sep 13, 2014.

  1. Teddydogno1

    Teddydogno1 Well-Known Member

    I recently purchased my first Islamic coin and would like some assistance with the attribution. It was sold as a coin of the Great Seljuq empire. It is gold, weighs 4.71 grams and is about 22 mm in diameter. I do have some additional attribution info from a previous seller, including an Album number. I bought Stephen Album's second edition "Checklist", but since there are no photos I cannot confirm that it really is what a previous seller said (Pegasi Numismatics, if anyone knows of them). So, I'm hoping someone can help to confirm some of the details from seeing the pictures. For now, I was thinking to leave out the unconfirmed info to prevent leading anyone to a conclusion, but if you guys think it is better to start from a "known" attribution, then I can post that info. Does that make sense?

    Here's the coin:
    greatseljuq_1_small.jpg greatseljuq_2_small.jpg

    Thanks for any help!

    Oh...and please let me know if I have either picture upside down!

    Rob
     
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  3. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    Yes, it should be a dinar of Rukn al-Din Barkiyaruq, AH 468-498 / AD 1093-1105. The date and mint name appear in the outer inscription. Album 1682.1 (in the new edition, should be the same in the second)
     
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  4. Teddydogno1

    Teddydogno1 Well-Known Member

    Hmm. OK. I see that one. That does not match what the previous attribution was. Is there something specific that you can see on the coin that tells you it is Barkiyaruq?

    Any other thoughts, folks?

    Rob
     
  5. doug444

    doug444 STAMPS and POSTCARDS too!

    As I have said several times, I continue to be amazed :wideyed: by folks (like the above) who know ancients, Islamic, Persian, Indian, Chinese, etc., etc., backwards and forwards.
     
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  6. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

  7. Teddydogno1

    Teddydogno1 Well-Known Member

    Yes, the left image on that page appears to be a match! The right does not match the other side of mine, though. Which side has which information on it? Is the ruler's name in one of the fields? If so, is it the side with 4 lines, or 5? Or is that in one of the outer legends? Where is the mint mark? The attribution I have (and question) says Nishapur.

    Thanks!

    Rob
     
  8. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    First off, you have the obverse and reverse switched. The obverse begins with the bismillah, the name of God - a standardized formula on almost all Islamic coinage at this point. The last line on the obverse is Muqtadi, the 'Abbasid caliph and overlord. The name and titles are on the reverse, possibly with the name of a regional governor. I could read beyond that, but I'm actually rubbish at reading these. It takes too much time and too much coffee for me to get through one!

    I could tell from the style of the script that it was either Seljuk or closely related, so I did a search for "Great Seljuk" and "dinar," and then looked through until I found one with matching legends. If you want to learn how to read the date and mint and, with a lot of practice, the legends, find a copy of Arabic Coins and How to Read Them by Richard Plant. It's essentially a work book that will teach you how to read these coins.
     
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  9. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Sweet => that's a very cool new Islamic gold coin, Teddy (congrats) ...

    Oh, and incredible info/coin-knowledge from our awesome CNG comrade, Ardy!!

    I have a silver example to share ...

    Seljuqs of Rum, Kaykhusraw II

    1236-1245 AD

    seljuqsa.JPG seljuqsb.JPG
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014
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  10. Teddydogno1

    Teddydogno1 Well-Known Member

    I like that Silver, Steve. From what I've read, silver coins were not very common in the Great Suljeq period and the bronze and billon coins are scarce due to wear, remelt and corrosion. Very nice one!

    Rob
     
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