Help attributing worn Commodus Denarius?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Justin Lee, Aug 21, 2017.

  1. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    Hey all, I recently purchased a worn Commodus denarius and have been trying to accurately attribute it, but I'm running into some problems getting the obverse and reverse to kind of "match" up.

    Here is my coin:
    20170817_154827.jpg 20170817_154855.jpg

    I've been searching on WW and found the below reverse (TR P VIIII (dot) IMP VI COS IIII P P, Aequitas standing left, holding scales and cornucopiae, globe at foot). It's as close as I could find there with a "globe at foot" but the figure really doesn't match and my TRP is "VIII" and not "VIIII". [the below coin is listed: RIC 83; BMCRE 133; RSC 932 var]
    RIC_0083.jpg

    I was looking then on CoinArchives and found the below coin which (to me) matches the figure, the draping, the globe at foot, and hands/arms, but the lettering on my reverse is different; mine appears "TRP VIIII (dot) IMP VI COS IIII PP" and this one is "TRP VII (dot) IMP V COS III PP". Also the coin below has a different inscription the obverse than mine. [below coin is listed: Providentia standing facing, head left, holding wand over globe and long scepter. RIC III 44; MIR 18, –; RSC 846]

    image00540 (1).jpg

    Can anyone offer any help? How close am I? If I can't find the real attribution, how should I list it?

    Thanks in advance!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
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  3. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    The last I of the VIIII is partially there. Probably clogged.
     
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  4. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    I thought maybe that was a dot between the TRP number and the IMP. Both examples have a dot between them.
     
  5. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

  6. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    I would call it a variant of RIC 78, without P.M. at the beginning of the reverse legend. Probably just an omission in RIC, since many of his denarii come both with and without PM at the beginning. Mint date is A.D. 184.
     
  7. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    Zumbly is correct with RIC 65 in my opinion; TR P VIII dot not TR P VIIII. That coin is in BM (BMC 112), and there were 19 specimens in the Reka Devnia hoard.

    It seems doubtful that this Providentia standing type continued from TR P VII and VIII into TR P VIIII, despite descriptions by Cohen of such denarii both without and with P M.

    Without P M: Cohen 934 (citing a private collection, Asselin) = RIC 85. Not in BM (p. 712), none in Reka Devnia. Seaby, Roman Silver Coins 934, suggests that this might just be a misdescription of the Pax standing type with shield at her feet, Cohen 940 = RIC 86 = BMC 134, pl. 94.13. Or it could be the Aequitas standing type with globe at her feet, BMC 133, pl. 94.12.

    With P M: Cohen 444 (allegedly in Paris) = RIC 78. Again not in BM (p. 710), and none in Reka Devnia. Though Seaby accepts this coin (RSC 444), his suggestion of a misdescribed Pax standing type could well be right here too. That Pax type definitely exists: BMC 125-6, pl. 94.6. Or again it could be the Aequitas standing type misdescribed, BMC 121, pl. 94.5. It wouldn't be hard to check the coin Cohen was describing in Paris.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  8. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Both the OP and the CNG coin have an artifact between the last I of VIII and the first I of IMP. The two coins in the photos from Coin Archives have dots there. But the artifacts don't look like dots. Strange.
     
  9. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    Yea, the Coin Archives coin just has just an artifact in that spot. Mine seems a little more prominent that the Coin Archives coin. It is interesting/strange. Maybe the Coin Archives coin "dot" was clogged in that strike? We'll never know...
     
  10. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    Thank you @zumbly and @curtislclay for your help!! And thanks to everyone else too!

    I found another example of my OP coin type here (search in page for "BMC 112"): http://www.dirtyoldbooks.com/roman/id/Coins-of-Roman-Emperor-Commodus.htm

    [​IMG]
    RIC 65, BMC 112, RSC 905 Denarius Obv: MCOMMODVSANTONAVGPIVS - Laureate head right.
    Rev: TRPVIIIIMPVICOSIIIIPP - Providentia standing left, holding wand over globe and scepter. 183 (Rome). $195 2/1/05.
     
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  11. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Welcome to CoinTalk, @curtislclay! Good to have you here :)
     
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  12. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Here's my latest Commodus; came in the mail just today!

    Reminds me of this double dactyl by the mysterious and pseudonymous poet, Senex Caecilius:

    Unworthy Son

    Higgledy-Piggledy
    Son of Aurelius,
    Commodus died on a
    Far new year's eve;
    Poisoned then strangled, he
    Antiheroically
    Got his comeuppance and
    Then took his leave.

    Commodus CONC COM Concordia denarius.jpg
    Commodus, AD 177-192
    Roman AR denarius, 2.29 g, 17.2 mm, 7:00
    Rome, AD 191
    Obv: M COMM ANT P FEL AVG BRIT P P, laureate head, right
    Rev: CONC COM P M TR P XVI COS VI, Concordia standing left, holding patera and scepter
    Refs: RIC 219; BMCRE 296; Cohen 45; RCV 5631; MIR 808.
     
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  13. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    Brilliant example, RC!
     
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