Has this coin been cleaned? (Thinking about bidding)

What would you grade that coin? In the Redbook MS60 is $130 and MS63 is $225.

 

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Player11,
Exactly!
J.T.

 

With my limited grading skills, I'd say 63+ all day long. Nice looking coin as pictured and the reverse is better than the obverse.
That would make it a $250+ in a slab.
I guess some dealers just sell ungraded.
Not knocking the dealer, they are most likely making a profit on coins.

 

Does everyone have to 'buy into' this bloody frame of mind? If something worthy is in my collection in original state, why the blasted plastic? Need it? Not always. Some things are meant to be held as if taken from the wild.

That said, in order to protect myself from dastardly, unscrupulous sellers, I'd want the coin 'holdered' too.

 

I will relate this story.

When I was a dealer, I spotted a raw Classic Head $5 gold that was offered at dealer’s table. It looked good from a distance, so I looked at more closely. I looked at it and thought what’s wrong with this? Then I spotted it. The edge had been filed to remove a rim bump. In those days, that was an instant “no grade” or “body bag.” Many collectors would have missed it.

That was why it was raw or unslabbed.

 

Well met, John.

 

There are some fairly clear parallel lines on the reverse 7 to 9 oclock. And a few on the obverse. The coin is definitely not unc.
The coin has also been dipped, and has a very dull looking luster.
Hard pass.

 

Yeah, I played this game a while back. Bought a 1917 at a show that at the time, before I got more educated, looked great to me. Bright, white flashy. Full details like that one. Was no reason to have been cleaned. Sent it in to NGC to be graded for registry set. Came back AU Details cleaned. I traded it off on a nicer, graded one.
If I see thumbnail pics like that on ebay, I usually wont even click on it. If you're a regular seller, there's no reason to have pics by candle light nowadays unless hiding something. Some coins like this have been whizzed in the past and the lines are so fine from the buffing they can be hard to see in any picture or even in hand. When looking at any loose SLQ in this good of condition, I would go in assuming it's been cleaned until proven otherwise.

This is where the slabs make or break the deals. It's about identifying the proper price for the piece for both parties involved. Not just being in plastic. Sellers love selling raw coins because they're trying to get full price as if it were graded at that level when it may be cleaned and nearly unsellable at half the price if it was certified.
Nearly every coin that looks decent and is raw has been messed with. Go in with that assumption and then maybe occasionally you'll find one that hasn't been.

 

Me personally, have just never been a huge fan of slabbed coins.
Been collecting for 50+ years and I own only one.
The bulk of my raw coins are BU silver and definitely good enough for grading.
My point: maybe that's why it wasn't slabbed.
Just saying!
Very nice looking coin! Good luck with your decision.

 

Unless you are an expert, buying anything raw in U.S. coins is a risky gamble these days. I used to do it as a dealer because it was a way to make more money if I got it right, which I usually did. Now as a retiree, who does not get to very many shows, it’s different.

Even if you ignore the grading issue with slabs, and I will readily concede slab grading can be disappointing, the counterfeit problem is a lot more serious. At least with a certified piece, you have recourse. If you buy raw coins, all you have is the dealer who sold it to you.

The term “BU” covers a huge range these days. It can be anything from MS-60 to MS-64. I don’t know if you ever used the term “Gem BU.” That was used for MS-65 and higher. The price differences between those grades can be huge.

I was where you are 35 years ago. But I learned I had to change, if I was going to continue to acquire significant material.

 

My collections were purchased years ago when people were pretty honest and trustworthy. At least more so than today.
I use the term 'BU' because i know what a Brilliant Uncirculated coin looks like!
No, I'm not an expert but with my own coins I know that there are no counterfeits either!
What do you mean by "You were where I'm at 35 years ago"?
Referring to the graded ones I'm assuming?

 

Unfortunately when you say that “people were pretty honest and trustworthy” was exactly the time when whizzed and over graded coins were a big problem, if that was in the late 1970s and mid to late 1980s. There were “coin investment companies” that took people to the cleaners with “coin investment portfolios.” I saw this first hand. This was why the third party graders came into existence.

If you bought well, good for you. I did mostly, but did have a learning curve when I got whacked a few times financially and learned valuable lessons.

 

I must have been very lucky then!
Never been scammed that I know of.
Over paid as a young buck but other than that it's been a good ride as I quit buying about 8 years ago due to fights with cancer.
My kids are still learning as they will take over where and what I left.
What an awesome hobby!

 

It's not 'unfortunate' at all if you're dealing with people you've dealt with for years who were truly my friends.
One in particular was the guy who's got me interested in the hobby.
I was very lucky to have known him especially.