Has my coin been cleaned?

So, NOT this:

 

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no, and it's not money laundering, either, Kurt!

 

Since I work for the Pennsylvania General Assembly, and you're a Chicagoan, can we ever really say that for certain? Hmmmm?
BTW, I will be at the Chicago Coin Club meeting on August 9, on the way home from Denver. Why don't you see if you can work it into your day/evening? I understand the family issues if not.

 

I'm up for meeting for dinner if you have the time

 

I use slightly different terminology. The categories I use are Dipped (acetone, Verdicare, and silver dipping that does not make it look unnatural), Overdipped (silver dipping that makes the coin look unnatural, or any dipping of copper), and Cleaned (any abrasive method that causes the movement of metal). Harshly cleaned falls under the last caregory where the abrasive cleaning was extremely vigorous.

 

And I'll add: Chemically harshly/improperly cleaned even though that is obvious.

 

I'd like to see this coin-collecting Bible that defines exactly what a "cleaning" is. If no such Bible exists, then definitions can be personalized to one's interpretation.

 

Oh, my. The definition of cleaning and all of the forms it takes is taught in every grading seminar I have been in since 1973. Furthermore, what you have posted is so misinformed I should have just posted my original reply: NUTS!

I just deleted a challenge for you. I'm going to start a new thread.

 

Can't wait.

 

It is posted so if what you wrote is true, you should have our first or second reply.

 

Done. Short and sweet.

 

I looked up "cleaned" in a couple of the first hits.

Numismedia:

"When a coin has been cleaned with baking soda or other mild abrasives, it may have a slightly washed out appearance. If the lustre or color of a coin appears even the slightest bit unnatural as a result of past cleaning, the coin is usually described as “cleaned” when catalogued for sale."

Stacks:

"A term applied to a coin from which the original surface has been stripped away by having been cleaned with a mild abrasive. The coin then appears slightly washed out and/or has an unnatural appearance depending on the severity of the method used. Coins that have been cleaned are considered damaged and this strongly affects their value."

 

For dipping:

Stacks:

"A coin that has been placed in a chemical solution, often resulting in the removal of toning from most coins. When a coin is dipped, the first few layers of metal are removed and will eventually lose luster. We do not advise dipping your coins."

Numismedia:

"A coin which has been cleaned in a soap solution, the most popular of which is called Jewel Luster, is said to have been dipped. The term “dipped” is not necessary in, say, a catalog description of a coin, unless the dipping has caused noticeable dulling of lustre, or an otherwise unnatural appearance (typically on copper coins). The practice of dipping coins is not advisable, except by bonafide experts, and then only on rare occasions."

 

PCGS:

"cleaned: a coin that has dirt or toning removed with a cleaning agent. Cleaning ranges from light to severe, depending on what is used to clean the coin. Cleaning may disqualify a coin from being certified. TIP: leave cleaning to the professionals, as cleaning generally lowers the collector value of a coin."

"dip: to clean a coin in a chemical bath to remove toning."

John-E Cash

"cleaning
Any procedure that removes corrosion, unattractive toning, etc. such as dipping or rubbing with abrasive materials.

cleaned coin
A coin which has been dipped, polished, whizzed, wiped, etc. Generally speaking, a certain amount of very light cleaning (such as dipping) done by a professional may be acceptable."

"dipping
A form of cleaning by immersion in a liquid which is capable of causing molecular changes in the surface (with the intent of providing a more appealing look)."

There appears to not just be one consistent definition of "cleaned." Some fit my definition, some kinda fit yours.

 

But Doug, doesn't the ability to "detect harm" actually fall along a continuum? It may be a NEARLY binary (yes/no) status (some harm is far more obvious to more viewers than others), but it isn't quite fully binary, is it? I point particularly to the tough cases like many bust and seated pieces, many with minor legacy touches of cleaning. That's where competing experts, or dare I say different individuals on the same TPGS grading panel, may disagree. There are "fuzzy edges", no?

 

I see your point, but I will reject your current terminology. I prefer to adopt "properly cleaned" and "improperly cleaned," where "harshly cleaned" is a subset of the latter. There are different degrees of improper cleaning, and I'd prefer to reserve "harsh cleaning" for the most extreme abrasive cases, not all of them.

For the early dollars, their rarity does not change the fact whether or not they have been cleaned. It just affects whether or not some numismatic god declares the cleaning as market-acceptable.