Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
US Coins Forum
>
Has Grading Gone to Far?
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Insider, post: 4504283, member: 24314"]The OP, Long Beard, posted: "Way back in 1949, William Sheldon devised a grading system for large cents which expanded to all series. Known as the Sheldon Scale, the original consisted of 12 grades. Ranging from circulated through extra-fine (8), one simply defined as uncirculated and three mint states of 60, 65 and 70. Coin collectors now had a standardized method of determining a coins condition. With this now acceptable, and rightfully so, the previous prices changed dramatically dependent upon this new system. <b>Of note, third party grading had not existed until 1972 with ANACS becoming the first to encapsulate coins. </b></p><p><b><br /></b></p><p><i><span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 102)">This is not correct. ANA started an AUTHENTICATION ONLY service. They did not actually encapsulate coins. Coins were returned in a plastic flip with a photographic paper image attesting that the coin was authentic. AFAIK, Accugrade was the first service to "encapsulate" coins in a plastic "slab" as is done now. </span></i></p><p><br /></p><p>Then, in 1986, coin grading would have another name attached <span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 102)">[David Hall et al?]</span> with the founding of PCGS through co-founder John Albanese. Dissatisfied with the company's direction, he founded his own, NGC, the following year. Although Sheldon's namesake remains on the scales still used today, 1987 was a pivotal year which turned the coin market on it's head. A new revised scale grew to 30 grades within the same three categories of circulated, uncirculated and mint state. So essentially, had you bought a mint state 60 in 1985 for say, twenty dollars, and it now graded mint state 63, the price jumped $40. Or it might have gone the other way. What ever the case maybe, prices shifted dependent upon this new scale. And by large percentages. <b>Despite the visions of one man <font size="6"><span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)"><i>[??]</i></span></font>,</b> collectors themselves gave rise to third party grading as we know it. On the flip side though, with PCGS and NGC, investors were the true winners. This was also a time when coins were traded sight unseen based on the grade of a coin. However, it does not seem to apply as today.</p><p><br /></p><p>Once more, coin grading has been revised with Certified Acceptance Corporation (CAC) entering the market in 2007. Again, founder John Albanese, has broken down each grade through what's known as green and gold beans. Now, while some believe these to be a good thing, it should be clear that it is nothing more than a perception of the fact. While the advent of the internet may be largely to blame for the demise of buying sight unseen, CAC stickered slabs tend to sell <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)"><b>[for more!</b>]</span> irregardless. Perhaps this is nothing short of the latest craze. But what's interesting about CAC is that the same individual who played a founding role in both major grading firms only certifies from those two companies. Is that simply coincidence? <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">[NO, it is the old boys club. Why let the world know that other TPGS have great coins also]</span> Hardly when a coin grading one grade on the slab becomes higher in value than that of the next. Which contradicts a star at NGC and a plus at PCGS when they are defined as the same.</p><p><br /></p><p>So, what am I saying here? With absolute certainty value is set by the market. But which market? With only two choices it is apparent that the collector is in some ways pushed from the market. As if we, the collectors, become irrelevant to profit. Not to be misunderstood, in no way am I complaining as to how things are at the moment. In truth, I see this as a good thing considering non-CAC coins are holding steading or in some cases dropping in price as more and more swarm towards the beans. Pick any auction site and you'll see this. What does concern me, in fact it becomes disheartening, is how grading companies conduct themselves and thereby drive off the average collector. Especially the newcomers.</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">The value of a coin is set by many factors including labels and beans. IMO, the average collector is helped by the grading services because the majority of them would have their eyes picked out and their bones left to decompose by coin dealers. It is your money. The folks who purchase coins MAKE 1/2 OF THE MARKET.</span></p><p><br /></p><p>To finish, I ask one simple question. Why can we not get back to what Dr. Sheldon created?"</p><p><br /></p><p><b><i><span style="color: #b30000">Easy answer, Sheldon's system has been obsolete for over four decades when it ceased to be followed at all!!! Sheldon's EF-40 is TODAY's AU-58!!!</span></i></b> <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie57" alt=":jawdrop:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Insider, post: 4504283, member: 24314"]The OP, Long Beard, posted: "Way back in 1949, William Sheldon devised a grading system for large cents which expanded to all series. Known as the Sheldon Scale, the original consisted of 12 grades. Ranging from circulated through extra-fine (8), one simply defined as uncirculated and three mint states of 60, 65 and 70. Coin collectors now had a standardized method of determining a coins condition. With this now acceptable, and rightfully so, the previous prices changed dramatically dependent upon this new system. [B]Of note, third party grading had not existed until 1972 with ANACS becoming the first to encapsulate coins. [/B] [I][COLOR=rgb(102, 0, 102)]This is not correct. ANA started an AUTHENTICATION ONLY service. They did not actually encapsulate coins. Coins were returned in a plastic flip with a photographic paper image attesting that the coin was authentic. AFAIK, Accugrade was the first service to "encapsulate" coins in a plastic "slab" as is done now. [/COLOR][/I] Then, in 1986, coin grading would have another name attached [COLOR=rgb(102, 0, 102)][David Hall et al?][/COLOR] with the founding of PCGS through co-founder John Albanese. Dissatisfied with the company's direction, he founded his own, NGC, the following year. Although Sheldon's namesake remains on the scales still used today, 1987 was a pivotal year which turned the coin market on it's head. A new revised scale grew to 30 grades within the same three categories of circulated, uncirculated and mint state. So essentially, had you bought a mint state 60 in 1985 for say, twenty dollars, and it now graded mint state 63, the price jumped $40. Or it might have gone the other way. What ever the case maybe, prices shifted dependent upon this new scale. And by large percentages. [B]Despite the visions of one man [SIZE=6][COLOR=rgb(179, 0, 0)][I][??][/I][/COLOR][/SIZE],[/B] collectors themselves gave rise to third party grading as we know it. On the flip side though, with PCGS and NGC, investors were the true winners. This was also a time when coins were traded sight unseen based on the grade of a coin. However, it does not seem to apply as today. Once more, coin grading has been revised with Certified Acceptance Corporation (CAC) entering the market in 2007. Again, founder John Albanese, has broken down each grade through what's known as green and gold beans. Now, while some believe these to be a good thing, it should be clear that it is nothing more than a perception of the fact. While the advent of the internet may be largely to blame for the demise of buying sight unseen, CAC stickered slabs tend to sell [COLOR=rgb(179, 0, 0)][B][for more![/B]][/COLOR] irregardless. Perhaps this is nothing short of the latest craze. But what's interesting about CAC is that the same individual who played a founding role in both major grading firms only certifies from those two companies. Is that simply coincidence? [COLOR=rgb(179, 0, 0)][NO, it is the old boys club. Why let the world know that other TPGS have great coins also][/COLOR] Hardly when a coin grading one grade on the slab becomes higher in value than that of the next. Which contradicts a star at NGC and a plus at PCGS when they are defined as the same. So, what am I saying here? With absolute certainty value is set by the market. But which market? With only two choices it is apparent that the collector is in some ways pushed from the market. As if we, the collectors, become irrelevant to profit. Not to be misunderstood, in no way am I complaining as to how things are at the moment. In truth, I see this as a good thing considering non-CAC coins are holding steading or in some cases dropping in price as more and more swarm towards the beans. Pick any auction site and you'll see this. What does concern me, in fact it becomes disheartening, is how grading companies conduct themselves and thereby drive off the average collector. Especially the newcomers. [COLOR=rgb(179, 0, 0)]The value of a coin is set by many factors including labels and beans. IMO, the average collector is helped by the grading services because the majority of them would have their eyes picked out and their bones left to decompose by coin dealers. It is your money. The folks who purchase coins MAKE 1/2 OF THE MARKET.[/COLOR] To finish, I ask one simple question. Why can we not get back to what Dr. Sheldon created?" [B][I][COLOR=#b30000]Easy answer, Sheldon's system has been obsolete for over four decades when it ceased to be followed at all!!! Sheldon's EF-40 is TODAY's AU-58!!![/COLOR][/I][/B] :jawdrop::facepalm:[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
US Coins Forum
>
Has Grading Gone to Far?
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...