Hi everyone, I'm new and found this forum while searching for the current value of 1913 20 Francs Gold Rooster coins. I have a question - now I know this forum is more about coin collecting than it is about gold investment, but I'm considering purchasing some through GL for security/investment purposes. The problem I'm having is how to determine the true value of the coin, should I purchase any. The GL rep quoted me a price of roughly $270 per coin yet I'm seeing some 1913 Gold Roosters going for $68 (one auction that is not completed yet), $198, and $235 (seen on eBay and other dealer sites.) Now, obviously I know that the fluctuating price of gold affects the price but I'm concerned that if I purchase through GL, I'm going to end up paying a lot more than what it's worth (let's just say I don't have very much trust in any company these days, especially heavily advertised ones.) Or am I reading too much into the unusually low auction prices and those are just flukes and/or scams? How can I know what a coin is truly worth? Thank you in advance! I look forward to learning a thing or two. -KC
I've seen sites that advertise BU Roosters for a little over $200. If I did my math right according to what gold was worth yesterday there is only about $160 worth of gold in one of these coins. It truly is had to tell what a coin is worth, simply it is worth what someone is willing to pay for it at a given time. I would say that you should shop around and take the average to see what the going rate is and then decide on weather or not you want to go with a big company or take a risk on someone else. It really is up to you and what you think is the right choice. One other thing to remember is that almost anywhere you buy from is making a profit off of you....
Most gold roosters are basically worth close to the value of the gold they contain. if oxjaw is right and the melt value is around $160 then it woud seem to me that $200 should be about the most you should pay. And if it wasn't for the fact that physical precious metal is harder than usual to secure I would think that $185 would be closer. $270 is ridiculous for a common date.
another day another lady. looks like peter has finally decided to improve things. maybe we can have another link like the GD threead welco0me to CT
Welcome to the forum, you have come to the right place to learn, share and have a good time. As for the gold rooster, i saw them listed for $189 this morning and that is in B U condition. When buying any coins, do your homework, check several sellers and please ask any questions you might have. I have a friend who collects gold roosters and they are a nice coin. Bill :smile
It's .1867 troy ounces of gold and should be priced accordingly. It will probably have a premium to melt value, but don't overpay.
I use to work at Goldline and they are a very reputable company. They are on the higher end of pricing but they disclose everything in writing, so make sure to read the account and storage agreement. Keep in mind that they do alot of advertising, they're located in Santa Monica, CA in premium real estate, and their reps make about 5.5% on numi coins. The advantage of working with them is that they will supply you with the coins and they will buy your coins back especially if you're a client. Make sure you read their Account Agreement and understand their buy and ask spreads. For Numismatics it's 30-35% spread. So you'll need to cover that spread before you sell for a profit. I do agree with the other replies that you can get the Rooster or Swiss Franc at lower prices, but you need to do your research on who you're buying them from. Obviously if you're buying from Ebay you should only buy from 100% positive sellers with over at least 100 transactions. Personally I prefer buying American Coins that are certified. Again, that's a personal preference. Remember that coins are a 5-8 year hold so don't expect to buy today and sell for a profit tomorrow. You might as well trade options! Good luck!
Thank you so much for all of your info. I am planning to purchase the coins not so much as a collector (although I absolutely am fascinated by old currency) and not even as an investment for a huge return (although it's possible over time) but more so for securities sake/backup life insurance policy for next-of-kin since I've lost a lot of faith in companies these days. When I get a chance, I'll probably post some pics of some old foreign coins that I've had passed down to me. You all might get a kick out of it and I definitely want to learn more about them. Thank you again.
Goldline Because of the controversy on this company, I called to check them out. Their prices for gold and silver 1 ounce eagles was very competitive, but with a three week lag time on receipt of good funds and shipment. No charge for shipping. On the numismatic coins, like $20 libs and Saints, they were selling AUs for well over $2000 which is ridiculous. Call up Heritage, Rarcoa or Spectrum and get their buy/sell prices. Compare, compare, compare! On the old sovereigns and other European gold coins, they were not honest, hinting at defense against confiscation through owning such coins and with huge price mark-ups. Check out APMEX or Gainesville's website to get current spreads and then compare with the tele-promoters. Don't pay for high-end advertising and marketing or you will never enjoy the upside in tangible assets.
Goldline As an investor and collector, I would never buy from them. Their prices are way above the market and they charge a 1% buyback fee when you liquidate. You shouldn't have to pay for a buyback fee. They ship out coins in 3-4 weeks which is ridiculous! Other dealers ship out in 1-5 days. If you're a collector then don't count on a Goldline rep to know much about coins. They will push Swiss Francs, French Roosters, Austrian Ducats or some kind of European coin that they say is numismatic when it's just bullion. Fear tactics like confiscation and tax reporting is another thing you'll hear. If you plan to buy bullion, don't be surprised if you wind up talking to another rep who will try to convince you to buy European Coins. Besides, their margins are too high for bullion. You shouldn't pay more than 6.5% over spot for bullion. With Double Eagles like $20 Saints and $20 Libs, right now mS64 Saints are around $1900. If you call Gold line I bet they're charging over $2100, maybe even more. MS62 $20 Libs are around $1700. I bet they don't even carry Libs at Goldline and I guarantee the account rep couldn't tell you what the common dates are for Saints and Libs. (Generally common date Saints 1924 & 1927, Libs 1904). There are a few things you should expect from a dealer: Can they tell you the population report of a certified coin, mainly from PCGS and NGC? Can they describe the coin to you? In other words are the coins in front of them? (bullion & generic dates are an exception to this) Is the dealer looking out for your best interest or their own? How many options of liquidation does your dealer offer? Outright buy, trades, and auction consignment should be your choices. What is the dealer's return policy? Usually 7 days is standard on certified coins. (bullion is usually a final sale) Hope this information helps and good luck!
The thing with Roosters is there were restrikes using the old dies. I'd much rather get a real authentic older Rooster than a common newer restrike. Of course it's all bullion anyway.
They quoted $2200 plus for XF/AU $20 Liberties and Saints. They quoted somewhat higher prices for MS62 Libs. and Saints. And you can be sure these will not be Type I or Type II $20s or much better dates. They probably call up Heritage and tell them they need 1000 $20 Libs. and Saints after getting elderly collectable addicts to wire their money for these "beautiful" coins from a Florida estate. "And because you are such a nice person, we are giving you first dibs". Maybe they also have "a former PCGS" or "former NGC" coin grader working for them who thinks the coins should upgrade a point or two--maybe even three points. But "be sure to put them in your safe deposit box as soon as they arrive--we wouldn't want a greedy housekeeper to find them".
I like the people and they have a good podcast but I have to agree with your assessment. The place seems to be for wealthy people who don't have time or patience to look for a better deal so they go to the most heavily advertised place they hear and simply don't care about the mark up. As if it's a given. They wanted over $400 for gold sovereigns when they were going for $300 on ebay. It seems like a large markup to me. You're already taking a risk buying at all time highs. Why would anybody want to add another 30% premium on top of that? And then lose another 1% when you sell back? 5 to 10 year investment? At that rate, it's more like a lifetime.
A relative of mine called them about buying from them, not only did they push the Swiss Francs (as "numismatic" though as said before they're pretty much bullion), but they also push the myth that Swiss Francs are "unconfiscatable" because they are old, as if 1) the government is about to confiscate gold and 2) if they want to take all, something about the age of the coin will keep them from doing so. Their prices were also way above market. Not worth dealing from the stories I've heard.
Mother Jones magazine just had a lengthy article about Goldline, related to one of their product endorsers. Now there is a bunch of partisanship in the article, it could have been generic, and if the magazine really was on a consumer protection piece many of the cash for gold advertisers are lots worse as far as fair dealing. That said, the salesmen pushing to sell restrikes at a large premium is mentioned heavily in the piece, and to be fair a sidebar mentioned some of the product spokesmen from the opposite end of the political spectrum. From my experience there are lots worse places than Goldline to buy or sell gold, but there are also much better places. I feel the focus on Goldline is political in nature, not referring to the op, but the recent spate of articles and the congressional investigation.
