Hard Times Token

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Seascape, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. Seascape

    Seascape U.S. & World Collector

    This would be my 1st. Just snatched it tonight. I looked at several and this one was one of the better ones as far as condition. Maybe the best unslabbed on ebay right now. Don't know much about it other than its common in highly circulated condition. This is a new avenue for me. 65.00 tax and title. How'd I do? Internet_20210721_203807_2.jpeg Internet_20210721_203807_1.jpeg
     
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  3. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Nice token. I'm not sure what these are worth in today's times.
     
    Inspector43 likes this.
  4. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 Casual Collector / error expert "in Training "

    Very interesting Token ! Can you explain it's meaning ? I would be interested in finding out . :nailbiting:
     
  5. Inspector43

    Inspector43 73 Year Collector Supporter

    Nice. I think you did fine on the purchase. However, I have never bought of sold anything like this. Something this nice from 180+ years ago is worth a little.
     
  6. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    Looks nice, and an interesting collecting area.
     
  7. derkerlegand

    derkerlegand Well-Known Member

    Sold these about 5 years ago. Probably a lot higher now.
    zzzc&m-1.jpg
     
  8. Matthew Kruse

    Matthew Kruse Young Numismatist

    Yeah, I think a lot of articles and books have been published recently regarding hard times tokens have really boosted the popularity and value of them. I myself just bought my first, and should be getting a second soon.
     
    Bradley Trotter likes this.
  9. COOPER12

    COOPER12 Well-Known Member

  10. thomas mozzillo

    thomas mozzillo Supporter! Supporter

    Congrats. Very nice purchase.
     
  11. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    yakpoo and longshot like this.
  12. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Exec Exp  obv.jpg Exec Exp  rev.jpg
    This one has a different legend on the turtle side.
     
    ZoidMeister, Seascape and yakpoo like this.
  13. Seascape

    Seascape U.S. & World Collector

    Cool. I wish I understood these better. So little info on these. Only thing I really knew to do was pony up on a good example.

    They musta had like stock tokens and merchants could purchase strikes with they're business?
     
  14. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    That’s a sweet token!

    It’s a hard times token which was minted privately minted. Government issued coins were hard to find on circulation. At this time President Andrew Jackson declared that real estate transactions in the western part of the country could not be sold on credit. You had to purchased with hold or silver. He also closed the 2nd Bank of the U.S. which reverted the nations currency to State banks.

    In 1837 when Martin Van Buren was President commercial paper could no longer by turned in for gold or silver coins. This caused the hoarding of coinage, including copper cents. All of this caused the issuance of Hard Times tokens which are copper. They come in various varieties, most of which are the size similar to a large cent.

    The Hard Times Executive Experiment Token from 1837 is a Fiscal Agent Turtle with Treasure Chest. Also is I Follow in the Steps of My Illustrious Predecessor. The treasure chest represents funds of the treasury and the turtle is probably a dig at the slow of response of the government in addressing the panic. The donkey on the reverse is a symbol of the Democratic party, who at the time was in the White House. President Van Buren had promised to follow what Andrew Jackson did by saying "I Follow in the Steps of My Illustrious Predecessor." This appears to be a criticism of that statement.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  15. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Here’s some information about the symbolism on this token.

    The “sub treasury” in the turtle’s back refers to that agency that did the Federal Government’s collections and payments. Previously these functions had been provided by The Bank of the United States. When Andrew Jackson pulled the money out of the U.S. Bank and deposited it with his “pet banks,” he found that they were unreliable. The replacement was the sub treasury. The implication here is that the sub treasury was slow to make payments. The Sub Treasury existed until the Federal Reserve was created circa 1913.

    The reverse features a running jack ass. Previously Andrew Jackson had been depicted on a few Hard Times tokens as a jack ass. In his inaugural address, Martian Van Buren, Jackson’s hand picked successor, said that he was “following in the steps of his illustrious predecessor.” Therefore he too is shown as a jack ass.
     
  16. COOPER12

    COOPER12 Well-Known Member

    Screen Shot 2021-07-22 at 10.06.29 PM.png Screen Shot 2021-07-22 at 10.06.48 PM.png

    won this one for 21.50 the pics where bad.
    Possibly cleaned though I think it will look better than the pics indicate
     
  17. Matthew Kruse

    Matthew Kruse Young Numismatist

    Mine arrived in the mail today from a swap with a member here. :cool:

    Not in the best shape, but certainly has the same amount of history to it!

    upload_2021-7-23_15-36-2.jpeg
    upload_2021-7-23_15-36-17.jpeg
     
    Bradley Trotter and Seascape like this.
  18. Seascape

    Seascape U.S. & World Collector

    Here's a question I can never figure out..... how did these tokens get put into circulation? Who circulated them?
     
  19. Matthew Kruse

    Matthew Kruse Young Numismatist

    They were minted by private businesses I believe and just circulated by the general public when buying and selling goods. They were used for advertising and political messages too.
     
  20. Matthew Kruse

    Matthew Kruse Young Numismatist

  21. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Please read my post which is 4 above your question. It should answer it in detail. :)
     
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