Happy Birfday to me...from Alcibiades! How to determine Starr group?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ryro, Jun 16, 2021.

  1. Ryro

    Ryro The last of the Diadochi Supporter

    Of all days for this to arrive (I did win it 3 weeks ago) it landed right on my porch this morning, the morning of my 40th Birthday!
    Screenshot_20210529-094059_Chrome.jpg
    Attica - Athens - Owl Tetradrachm
    450-405 BCE
    Obv: helmeted head of Athena right. Rev: owl standing right; olive branch and crescent behind, AΘE before, within incuse square. 17.11 grams. Good very fine.

    Literature
    Sear 2526.
    Purchased from Timeline auctions May 2021


    A coin clearly used by Alcibiades when he absconded from Athens to Sparta during the Peloponnesian war! Pretty sure I can even see his pretty boy thumb print ;)
    [​IMG]

    Wishful thinking/dreaming aside, boyO does this coin bring favorite tales of that war rushing to my head like 5 shots of Absinthe taken in quick succession.
    Guys whose names will remain legendary as long as the sun shines like Pericles:
    [​IMG]
    (Pericles was said to have worn his helmet all the time due to his having an oddly long shaped head. No joke.)

    Thucydides:
    [​IMG]
    (at least Thucydides had the good sense to die right before the war ended)

    Nicias:
    [​IMG]
    (poor bastard got played twice and and gets to take all the blame)

    Socrates:
    [​IMG]

    and of course Alcibiades!
    [​IMG]

    Betrayals, unforeseeable changes of fortune, fighting on land see and everywhere in between. Heck, Alcibiades even slept with a Spartan queen during it all and was such a big deal that even she bragged about it:kiss:
    And NOBODY would have guessed that this brutal, long and drawn out war would have ended with Athens (kings of the sea) losing a naval battle to SPARTA at Aegospotami!?!?!
    [​IMG]

    I read through a bunch of old threads, tried searching for a site that lists how you can identify a coins Starr group and even searched ACsearch for coins under Sear 2526 hoping one might say. No luck. Anyone want to tell me or at least point me in the right direction of my new BFFs Starr group?
    Any help is appreciated. And please post those coins from the time period of the Peloponnesian war, great/favorite stories from the war or anything that sinks your navy!
     
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  3. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    Well, my honest and very educated opinion is....

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
     
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  4. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Happy Birthday! Great birthday present to yourself!
     
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  5. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Happy Birthday!
     
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  6. Mojavedave

    Mojavedave Senior Member

    What a nice Birthday present. Happy Birthday to you Ryro.

    Dave
     
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  7. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Happy Birthday @Ryro and a nice coin. I recently celebrated my 39th (not). Be happy with hitting the big 4-0. It is the new 29.
     
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  8. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    @Ryro .....First Happy Birthday!...Secondly WOW!! That's a great looking coin!...Lovely detail with nice toning....Sweet coin!
     
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  9. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    I will be XXXVI next month, @Ryro, if you don't like it (not a perfect flan and let's face it, not such a beautiful coin) I will accept it as a birthday gift.
     
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  10. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    Happy Birthday!

    Great coin.

    I thought Starr groups were only for the pre-Mass Owl owls. Yours looks like a Mass Owl, so I am not sure it has a Starr group number. What you might want is the Flament number.
     
  11. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    Happy birthday! A great coin for your special day. :)
     
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  12. Kavax

    Kavax Well-Known Member

    Happy Birthday and Congratulations !!
    My 50th is in 2 months ...

    DonnaML is right, your coin is a Starr group V and it won't help you much to know that. If you want to narrow the chronology, you have to look at the book of Flament and assigning a coin to a Flament group is some kind of an art (especially if you don't read French) :)

    My 2 cents is that your coin is a Flament group II dating 440-420.
     
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  13. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Happiest of Birthdays, @Ryro ... and may you have many more HAPPIER Birthdays!
     
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  14. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Happy Birthday and what a great gift to yourself. That is one wide-eyed owl!
     
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  15. Ryro

    Ryro The last of the Diadochi Supporter

    Thanks so much everyone! And double thanks to @DonnaML and @Kavax!!! As you can tell I'm very new to the type but learning:bookworm:
     
  16. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    The problem with determining Flament groups is that I haven't been able to find a detailed breakdown of the groups anywhere on the Internet, and the book itself isn't easily available in the USA -- the last time I checked, it had to be ordered from France and, as I recall, was quite expensive.
     
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  17. Ryro

    Ryro The last of the Diadochi Supporter

    Funny you'd mention that. I found out the hard way that shipping books across the Atlantic is EXPENSIVE.
    In the same Auction that I won the beauty above, I also won the Ryro...I mean royal Numismatics society complete Coin Hoards 1-6 set:
    numismatic-books-royal-numismatic-7004782.jpg

    And I got it for a pound over opening bid 35£!
    Then Timeline sent me the shipping. The prohibitive shipping price was triple the already inflated amount they charge since they utilize a third party that then uses fedex!
    Long story short, I didn't have the books sent and in their next Auction they will be selling them for me (insert face palm here).
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  18. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Happy Bday brother, but you're not suppose to buy yourself gifts. I think it a good idea for people to buy gifts for others on their birthdays. BTW, nice coin!
     
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  19. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Happy Birthday @Ryro !

    Your gift to yourself is just perfect and very well deserved. Enjoy.

    It seems a great idea to gift oneself:happy: you should do it every year :D and by the way you gave me a great idea:)
     
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  20. Sulla80

    Sulla80 one coin at a time Supporter

    Happy Birthday, @Ryro! a nice tetradrachm.
     
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  21. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    You can buy it directly from the university in Belgium for 50 euros. I don't know exactly how much is the shipping but it shouldn't be more than 20 euros.
    https://numismatica.fltr.ucl.ac.be/tabmat/en1presentation.htm

    Edit: the well-known bookshop-scalper was selling it for 69 euros. LoL
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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