Thank you ! Totally agree I dont plan on starting to collect types and groups. So I won't waste any money myself buying the little book.
These are two very nice pennies you found @1827jim . Your short cross penny still has plenty of detail on the obverse and reverse and is identifiable. The legend on the reverse reads +STIVENE ON LVN. Our dear moneyer Stivene minted coins in London for both Richard and John in classes II thru IV. Based on the large number of small curls for hair on the bust the penny is from Class II which was minted in the period 1189-1194. So, you have a penny of Richard I Coeur de Lion from a lies than common coinage class.