Half cent 1804

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by petronius, Jan 22, 2021.

  1. petronius

    petronius Duke

    Another coin from the Italian forum lamoneta.it

    half cent1804d1.jpg

    half cent1804r1.jpg

    Weight 5,4 gr., diameter 23,5 mm., but we have some doubts. Could be a fake? :rolleyes:

    petronius :)
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  3. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Well, the wire rim gives me pause right out of the gate.
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  4. petronius

    petronius Duke

    More photos

    half cent1804d2.jpg

    half cent1804r2.jpg

    Thanks for your opinions.

    petronius :cool:
  5. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    It looks like a fake to me. Something of a cross between Cohen-6 (triple leaf at inner right of [O]F and Cohen-12 (long fractional crossbar). I think I see a weak Spiked Chin on the Obverse...and no Spiked Chins have long crossbars.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  6. YoloBagels

    YoloBagels Well-Known Member

    I'm not an expert in early copper but two things point to it being a counterfeit.

    As @Publius2 mentioned, the rims do not look normal as the denticles are sharply cut off and there seems to be some graininess all around the coin. It's actually a much higher quality fake than 95% of what China/Malaysia/Eastern Asia Puts out.

    I'm sure an expert in draped bust half cents could instantly spot the "variety" if any.
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  7. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    1804 half cents do not have wire rims. Sorry, it's a counterfeit. It also has the "Chinese toning look." Sometime they put so bright green corrosion on them.

    The photos are no very good because they were from slides I had transferred unsuccessfully of my half cent die variety collection, which I sold in the early 1990s, but here is a genuine example. The OP was made to resemble an 1804 Cohen 12 half cent. Crosslet 4, No Stems.

    1804 C-12 O.jpg 1804 C-12 R.jpg
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  8. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    The crossbar is similar to the Cohen-12, but that's where the similarities end.
  9. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    The obverse on the OP's coin is most like Obverse 2 (crosslet 4, no spiked chin, widely spaced date with top of 4 nearly touching drapery. This obverse is supposed to be mated with the With Stems Reverse B.

    The OP's coin's reverse is Without Stems. The W/O Stems reverses are mated with Obverses 4 (closely spaced date , 4 vertical and close to 0), and 5 (plain 4). So, the OP's coin's reverse is not matched with a known obverse for that reverse.

    So, the op's coin looks like a fake mule because of wire rims and die pairing that does not exist. My attribution is taken from Bill Eckberg's book on half-cents.

    I hope I've got this right. I'd hate to be wrong twice in one week.
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  10. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    It seems ridiculous to attribute a fake, but the 180[4] is wrong for any Obverse...but closest to Obv. 1a or Obv. 4 (imo). There are so many other indicators of a fake on the reverse...the position of the triple leaf, the feet on the "T"s, position of letters in STATES, fraction, berries, etc. I'm sure we can find more if we take the time.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  11. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    This is a fake coin, recently made in China
  12. petronius

    petronius Duke

    :arghh: :arghh::arghh:

    Thanks to all :cool:

    Petronius :)
  13. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    It's a pairing of Obv 1 and Rev F, a pairing that did not occur with a genuine coin. Rev F is obvious from the stemless wreath. If you look closely you can still see the traces of the spiked chin and the arcs in the right obv. The arcs show better in Petronius's first picture the spiked chin shows better in the second picture in post #3.

    Obv 1 was used for C-1 and 3 (pre spiked chin) and C-5, 6, 7, and 8 (post spiked chin). Rev F was used for C-12 and C-13.
    petronius and ldhair like this.
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