Message:

<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Marsyas Mike, post: 2674566, member: 85693&quot;]This Vespasian-Vitellius bust type topic is very interesting to me.&nbsp; I&#039;ve been digging around my own scruffy Vespasian collection and looking at images online and have a few random thoughts and discoveries. </p><p><br /></p><p>First of all, I found this on Wildwinds: </p><p><b><br /></b></p><p><b>Vespasian. 69-79 AD. AR Denarius (3.39 gm). Struck 69-71 AD. Obv: IMP CAESAR VESPASIANVS AVG, laureate head right. Rev: COS ITER TR POT, Pax seated left, holding branch and caduceus.&nbsp; RIC 29; RSC 94h; Sear 2285.</b></p><p><b><br /></b></p><p><b>With permission of Dr. Busso Peus Nachfolger - Auction 414, Lot 155, April 2015.</b></p><p><b><br /></b></p><p><b>Note: There is a very large number of different versions of the emperor&#039;s head of this coin type. Some are quite young, some a bit haggard with a long pointed nose, some noses hooked, some his usual chubby self, others with hair resembling a wig.</b></p><p><br /></p><p>The &quot;wig&quot; part is very interesting - Vespasian in a wig ala Otho?&nbsp; I&#039;d love to see that.&nbsp; Note this is described as being issued in 69-70 A.D.&nbsp; Some sources I found only list 70 A.D. </p><p><br /></p><p>From my own (scruffy) collection, below are two examples RIC 29 (as described above).&nbsp; The first one looks decidedly un-Vespasian to me, and although not much like Vitellius, it suggests a hybrid of the two types.&nbsp; The second one is more typically Vespasian, but not entirely the &quot;classic&quot; look.&nbsp; The third example is a later series (oxen on reverse) is, in my opinion, classic Vespasian.&nbsp; The original coin posted here by David Atherton is a better example of a Vitellius bust on a Vespasian coin - I just don&#039;t have one of these myself (someday, I hope). </p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]596291[/ATTACH]&nbsp; [ATTACH=full]596296[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]596297[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>So what are the characteristics of a classic Vespasian bust?&nbsp; This is kind of an art history question that I am not qualified to answer, but here are a few thoughts:</p><p><br /></p><p>Neck:&nbsp; Vespasian&#039;s was a &quot;bull&quot; neck, almost as wide as his whole skull.&nbsp; Vitellius had a pretty thick neck, but not that thick.&nbsp; In my first example above, the neck is considerably thinner than the skull, if not exactly a pencil-neck (sorry, Julius Caesar).&nbsp; In the second example, the neck is thicker, but still not Vespasian-thick.&nbsp; The third example - the &quot;classic&quot; bust - even shows fat rolls at the neck. </p><p><br /></p><p>Skull:&nbsp; Vespasian, in his classic guise, has a rectangular, blocky skull (my third example is somewhat rounder than others out there).&nbsp; Like a meatloaf, kind of.&nbsp; Vitellius has a rounder skull.&nbsp; The relation of the skull to the neck is perhaps one of the most easily spotted differences - in my first example above, I was half-hoping before I got the coin in hand that I&#039;d got a really, really cheap Vitellius (the reverse type did not support this hope, alas).&nbsp; The main reason I consider my second example as a &quot;transition type&quot; is the roundness of the skull and the thin neck. </p><p><br /></p><p>Nose/Chin:&nbsp; Vespasian&#039;s chin and nose are prominent but not huge.&nbsp; They protrude to the same degree, and tend to point towards each other, sometimes almost touching.&nbsp; Vitellius has a longer, more prominent nose and a slightly receding (if still double) chin.&nbsp; From looking at images on the web, however, the nose is perhaps the most variable feature and I think hardest to pin down (see Dr. Nachfolger&#039;s comments on noses above).&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>Expression:&nbsp; Vespasian&#039;s expressions on his coins varied, perhaps best described by Suetonius, in one of the funniest bits from an ancient historian I&#039;ve encountered:</p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;He was well built, with strong, sturdy limbs, and the expression of one who was straining. Apropos of which a witty fellow, when Vespasian asked him to make a joke on him also, replied rather cleverly: ʺI will, when you have finished relieving yourself.ʺ&nbsp; (20, Loeb Classical Library translation, 1914)</p><p><br /></p><p>This &quot;straining&quot; expression is found on many, but not all, of his coins.&nbsp; It is best seen in the third of my examples.&nbsp; Vitellius has more of a...how do you describe it?&nbsp; A kind of gourmet&#039;s superciliousness?&nbsp; He certainly doesn&#039;t look like a guy who would lead legions through the desert and march on Rome.&nbsp; Vitellius&#039;s lips are thicker, sometimes almost looking pursed (as if disapproving an overdone roasted hummingbird at a banquet) - my first example shows this, somewhat.&nbsp; Vespasian&#039;s lips are thinner, sometimes pursed, but in a somehow less epicurean way (whatever that means!).&nbsp; The eyes are another point to notice - Vespasian&#039;s are almost squinted shut sometimes (my third example above); they are wide open on Vitellius and the transition busts. </p><p><br /></p><p>This is hardly a scientific (or even art-historical) survey.&nbsp; And I&#039;m sure members out there have far better, more instructive examples.&nbsp; I for one would love to see them.&nbsp; (And especially any of Vespasian bewigged like Otho!)[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

Your name or email address:

Do you already have an account?

• No, create an account now.
• Yes, my password is:
• Forgot your password?

Stay logged in