Had a business refuse coin payment today.

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by jensenbay, May 12, 2013.

  1. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator--selling--make an offer I can't refuse

    Yakpoo probably has the closest idea. The guy was probably hoping to be offered a ten so he could say there was no change in his CASH REGISTER.

    Poor training? Come on. Counting to $8 requires soooooo much training. The only sob stories I'm hearing are those making 'what if' excuses for a lazy person.

    How bout this one: What If you go by the facts as they are presented instead of trying find excuses for an idiot? What orifice are you pulling them from anyway? Fact is you guys sound whiny and are pretty far-reaching with your fantasy excuses.
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  3. sodude

    sodude Well-Known Member

    Sure, but what about not accepting coins is lazy? Is it the weight of the coin (8grams)? I don't understand what's lazy about not accepting coins. I mean, what's hard about it?
  4. Tinpot

    Tinpot Well-Known Member

    Lots of uninformed posts, legal tender has to be accepted for debts. (or forfeiture of the debt occurs)

    Here is a video showing just how it works: For those who don't want to watch, an $88 dollar debt is paid with 8800 pennies, the lady at the counter at first rejects the payment, the cops are called and instruct the lady the payment needs to be accepted :D

  5. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I wonder how real this is? I have read some courts have held people in Contempt of Court for trying to pay in pennies to protest a fine. How could a Contempt charge be upheld if cents are legal tender?

    Just wondering if someone knows the specifics as to legal tender in the US vis a vie coinage.
  6. Tinpot

    Tinpot Well-Known Member

    It shouldn't have been, they were probably just trying to get the people to bow down to their authority (which they probably just did). Because who is going to pay a lawyer thousands of dollars just to prove they are correct?

    The courts/law enforcement get away with doing tons of illegal stuff this very way, most people can't afford or don't want to deal with the hassle of taking them to court over it.

    For example the speeding tickets given out by cameras may well be unconstitutional, but I don't think this has been brought to court yet. (likely because what would be the financial incentive for anyone to bring it to court?)
  7. archertiger3

    archertiger3 Member

    if you pay with change, they can charge you for the time it takes to count it.
    that's what my town does when people try to pay tickets with pennies
  8. ArthurK11

    ArthurK11 Active Member

    Don't think that's legal
  9. Tinpot

    Tinpot Well-Known Member

    Definitely not legal, well perhaps it could be legal if they just ask for you to pay it, but don't actually require you to pay the additional charge for the time it takes to count.

    It's sad very few people in USA understand their rights under the law, here is a sad/somewhat funny video demonstrating this point (look at his shirt too lol):

  10. archertiger3

    archertiger3 Member

    well, those people agreed to pay it, also in pennies
  11. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator--selling--make an offer I can't refuse

    It's all in the presentation:

    Acceptable: "We'll, this was our change jar change that we have been saving for a family outing, but now we have to use it for this fine. We rolled it all up for you. It's the only money we have to pay the fine with."

    Unacceptable: "I special ordered these cents specifically for the purpose of filling this large sack and using them to pay in protest to X." *dumps sack of cents all over desktop* "Have fun _ _ _ _ _!" *flips the bird on the way out the door*

    All about presentation :)
  12. rockyyaknow

    rockyyaknow Well-Known Member

    When I go on my honeymoon in October I have about $250 in $2 bills and 50 Ikes to spend. We have done it before on vacation and it amuses us a lot. Never really had any issues besides some funny looks. Some people get real excited like you handed them an ASE or something when handing them an Ike.

    I used an Ike one time at a toll and the peson asked if I had something else and I told them not and they took it without further question.
  13. oval_man

    oval_man Elliptical member

    I doubt it's a "counting" issue.

    You can assume he (or anyone) is an idiot all you want. It says more about you than him.
  14. swhuck

    swhuck Junior Member

    Wow. There used to be ticket vending machines at the Embarcadero where you could pay in bills and get SBAs in change. Dunno if they were at the other termini.
  15. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

  16. Tinpot

    Tinpot Well-Known Member


    The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

    This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.

    Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything This has been the case since 1933.
    The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy.

  17. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator--selling--make an offer I can't refuse

    The third to last sentence of the second paragraph states that while there is currently no federal law, a state law may mandate acceptance of all forms of money.

    The last two sentences state in summary that according to any given business' policy, ANY form of money can be prohibited from use. Example being an arcade where you buy non-refundable tokens to use the machines. Check.

    A business with such policies will normally also have a notice to customers in plain view alerting them to such policies.
    Examples I've seen: "No Change Accepted" "No Bills Larger Than $20 After 10PM" "No Out Of Town Checks" etc.

    Sodude at first I thought it would be a lazy individual because it is a person new to the monetary system, who was trying to avoid counting change in a till at end of shift. An ambitious person would do their job and take their best shot. See, if his job is to take money and give change I bet the moon he was asked in the application or at least upon hire if he was familiar with it. In that case he lied and SHOULD be fired.

    Now I'm thinking that is the least likely explanation. I truly believe that he either just gets off on being new to the country and yet being able to have authority/control over a born American, or he's a scammer, which hadn't even crossed my mind until yakpoo posted his experience.

    Ya know what THAT says about ME, ovalman? You are more likely to be taken, scammed, or rolled over in a dark alley, than I am. "What If there really IS free candy??"

    And yakpoo would have already thrown his jacket to the side, hands ready, and said "Go ahead Punk! Make my day....." :)
  18. Marsden

    Marsden Member

    The books say whatever the books say. In the real world, judges and cops make law every single day.

    If you have the nerve, the wherewithal, and the motivation to pursue it, you may pursue it.

    It won't be easy, it won't be cheap, and it will be risky. How much is your time worth?
  19. ArthurK11

    ArthurK11 Active Member

    This explains everything. A business can refuse any form of money as payment for a purchase. In this case however once you parked your car in the garage you have created a debt and the business now has to either accept any form of legal tender or forgive the debt.
  20. vam78

    vam78 Firefighter/Numismatist

    What's America coming to!!! Who cannot recognize genuine U.S. Coinage or should I ask that question... j/k :D :devil:

    BTW: Hello Everyone!
  21. vam78

    vam78 Firefighter/Numismatist

    I apologize for my previous post. Please know that I was just joking. That's my actual nickname at the Firehouse "Joker"... Sorry guys, no harm intended.
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